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There are several variants I seldom see in IG armylists. I'm curious how people's experiences have been with these vehicles.

Leman Russ Eradicator- I can imagine this would be nice to run against an ork green tide army using KFF. So many armies and units benefit from cover saves. If it were AP3 it would be REALLY nasty since it could hurt MEQs. Even still I gotta imagine its decent; vs infantry in cover I think this comes out on top vs a Battlecannon.

Leman Russ Punisher- Based on the mathhammer, its a real paper tiger. Simply spewing out 20 shots isn't as effective as it would seem when on average only 10 will hit and the target will always get an armor save. I feel its missing something; either have it be twin-linked, AP5, rending, something...but then again it might do well in casual games where people get scared at a 14/13/11 tank that can move and spew out 20+ shots each turn.

Griffon Heavy Mortar- The only downside seems to be the relatively low Str value, other than that it looks like a great deal; cheap, accurate, short min range firing indirect, and the most obvious choice when it comes to squadding up artillery. But I don't see people take them, and I would imagine in lower-point games (like 1000 or 1250 or something) a griffon would make more sense. Compare that to a Colossus, which for almost double the cost, ignores armor saves and has an AP3. They're going to be equally effective vs vehicles.

I think the eradicator is nerfed by it's short range. and the fact that all the other tanks you normally see are better. The LRBTs main Battle Cannon is much more versatile, imho.

I agree with your opinion of the Punisher.

And also on the Griffon. Hydras get the nod over it. Reroll is nice, but Str. 6? i'll take the str. 7 hydra thanks.

Good point about Hydras, though the point of having Griffons is to hide them in your backfield and indirect fire. They're one of the best units to run in a squadron, because they are cheaper, can stay out of LOS, hit their targets out of LOS, and have Barrage.

Hydras are great and particularly excellent against skimmers, but vs infantry they will do about the same. Having a squadron of both wouldn't hurt, either.

Eradicator has the same range as Executioner, but is 30 points cheaper and more effective vs targets in cover. 3 plasmacannons rock, but if the targets getting a coversave the AP value is moot and like the Hydra vs griffon argument, str 6 is generally as effective vs infantry as str 6 is. I don't think the range hurts it that bad. Is it situational? Sure. But I think vs Orks, Nids, and any other armylist that tries to make the most out of coversaves it will do well.


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Punisher is just bad. What bugs me about it is that it seems like IG's version of a Baal predator- except the predator is almost better in every way. The gun is stronger, actually has an AP value and rending, and is a twin-linked BS4 weapon. I think it has Souped Up Engines too?

The Demolisher, while it of itself an iffy variant, has a gun that projects a 24" radius of death around it. The punisher costs 15 points more and you get a far weaker weapon. If the Punisher was dirt dirt cheap (Like 130 points) then maybe you could justify the lackluster gun by the armored box its mounted on. But it is like the second most expensive variant, and by far one of the most overpriced vehicles in the whole armory.

Eradicator - never taken. No point to it. I'd rather take a colossus and hide behind BLOS.
Punisher - never taken. Mathhammer shows how silly it is. Just really poor rules design.
Griffon - never taken. Considered it a couple of times, but only makes sense against orks.

All of the above are opportunities wasted at the hands of boneheads at GW. It is supposed to be a workshop for games, but what it really excels at is fluff. So the name should be Fluff Workshop. They should leave the rules to people that understand basic math better.

Necrontyr40k wrote:
All of the above are opportunities wasted at the hands of boneheads at GW. It is supposed to be a workshop for games, but what it really excels at is fluff. So the name should be Fluff Workshop. They should leave the rules to people that understand basic math better.

If we're going to say their ability to write fluff is their best asset then we are truly screwed...

On topic I agree with whats been said, the variants listed are just not as good as the others available in the same FOC. I could maybe see adding a pair of griffins if you had some spare points, just to pop a few shots off and add more armor saturation.

And i think you could add the Colossus to the pile. I'd run a Basilisk or a Medusa first.

Toss in devil dogs, very inefficient as an anti tank unit (and to a lesser extent almost all the hellhounds are outclassed because of valks/venda)

I use the Griffon, but almost exclusively in lower points games (around 1000 points), because it gets me solid anti-horde power for a cheap price in slots that aren't getting used. At higher point levels, I need my Heavies to be good at more than one thing.

The Punisher looks even worse when you compare it to the other "rate of fire" tank the IG has, the Exterminator. Sure, the Punisher puts out a lot more hits, but they'll wound less often and allow more saves. Also, considering the Punisher Cannon's short range, it will probably won't have first turn shots. The Exterminator can take heavy bolter sponsons, stay still, and put out about 7.5 hits on turn 1 at 36". The Punisher has to move twice to get to that threat range, so at turn two, it's generating 11.5 hits, and they're of worse quality as a whole, and can't really be used against vehicles. It's also closer to the enemy, and so must be defended from meltaguns.

The Eradicator has the same problem as the Punisher. It's really only good against one sort of thing (light infantry). I understand that a stock LRBT can come up short against targets in cover, but at least it can hit the whole board, instakill T4, threaten lighter vehicles, and threaten MEQs.

kenshin620 wrote:Toss in devil dogs, very inefficient as an anti tank unit (and to a lesser extent almost all the hellhounds are outclassed because of valks/venda)

I disagree with this. I chose a Hellhound purely because I couldn't be bothered buying the foam/bags to fit a third Vendetta and it has been, quite simply, amazing in every game I have fielded it in. It excels at killing pretty much anything that people like to use to control home objectives; Scouts, Grots, Lootas, Kroot, blob-PIS, all get utterly wrecked by the HH, Ork/Nob bikers in particular *hate* this tank. It's main weapon is essentially a license to hit every model in the unit, and you'll be killing on 2s the vast majority of the time as well. The HH is also fast, so takes a fair bit of luck to take out in CC, and can contest objectives at the end of the game. It is also as well armoured as a Vendetta and can tank-shock and ram should the need arise. Finally the HH is much, MUCH easier to hide than a Vendetta and because people rarely seem to shoot at it (until it fires lol), it ends up surviving most games too.

Far too many people alight on the Vendetta/Valk as the only FA option and, whilst I'm not denying they're not very good choices, there are other options out there should you decide to be a little more creative they may well surprise you.

L. Wrex

A pair of Hellhounds in my army are workhorses I've kept around from previous editions. They pretty much always get done what I need them to do. I tend to view the inferno cannon as a short range battle cannon. We play with a lot of terrain in my area, and a 4+ cover save is almost guaranteed in normal firefights. The Hellhound ends up doing a lot more damage to marines than a battle cannon would because a 2+ wounding template that doesn't scatter and allows a 3+ armor save is better than a 2+ wounding template that does scatter and allows a 4+ armor save. I've also had some success running them in pairs. The two templates means everyone is taking saves, you end up with all the important squad members taking at least one, sometimes two saves.

Since we are expanding the discussion to Hellhounds, I have some experience with both the Banewolf and the Hellhound variant (never took the devil dog).

Generally, people ask "So, what does that do?" I tell them. Then, bam! bam! No more Banewolf and Hellhound. They are very easy to take out of the game because they have the same Av12 that people are geared up to take down expecting a chimera spam. Now I have large wrecks giving cover to the enemy and obstructing my own vehicles in narrow corridors of open ground. So, unless you routinely fight orks, I don't see them as making sense.

Competitiveness aside, I've had a lot of fun fielding them, just for the fear factor and my own morbid curiosity as to how long they will last this time around.

In the interest of disclosure, I do not run chimera spam, so it may very well be that in my lists they die more easily due to lack of AV12 target saturation. Now if you had a mass of chimeras following them, the opponent will have the unpleasant task of figuring out what he hates the least reaching his lines. Also, they are fast vehicles, which means they can pull forward and shower the enemy in toxic acid or fire as a surprise, because many people forget they are fast. The hellhound in particular has a nasty surprise when people realize the template starts 12 inches from the cannon rather than directly from the tip. Just don't remind them unless asked.

Still, both variants are fluffy and fun in my mind, but more competitive choices are present for powergaming.