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Hey guys.

Sometimes when we run into a complicated assault with multiple units on each side, I start second-guessing myself as to how it's supposed to work. I think we played this correctly, but let me make sure.

We had a large combat involving a squad of Killa Kans, a Deff Dread, and some Boyz on my side, and some Gargoyles, a Hive Tyrant w/ Tyrant Guard, and some Genestealers on my opponent's side.

Three questions came out of the assault:

In the 2nd round of combat, the Genestealers assaulted the Boyz, who were locked in with the Hive Tyrant. The Boyz were cut down to 4 remaining members, and failed their morale save. The Genestealers were ONLY in B2B contact with the Boyz, not the Killa Kans or the Dread. When the Boyz fail their morale save, this means that the Genestealers are free to make a sweeping advance and destroy the Boyz, correct? Now, after the Boyz are destroyed, the Genestealers are NOT in B2B with any unit that took part in the Assault, however, the Genestealers must STILL make a pile-in move to the Killa Kans and Deff Dread who are still in the Assault, correct? They do NOT consolidate?

As mentioned above, the combat involved a Hive Tyrant with a Tyrant Guard. Forgive me because I don't often run into players using Retinues. I understand that because the Hive Tyrant is in a Retinue I cannot allocate attacks to the Hive Tyrant specifically. However, what if the Hive Tyrant is NOT in B2B with any opponent in the Assault, only the Tyrant Guard? Is the Hive Tyrant Still allowed to Attack?

This assault BEGAN as an assault between a large group of Gargoyles and the Kans / Dread. My opponent assaulted with the Tyrant Guard by putting the Tyrant Guard in B2B with my Deff Dread, and BETWEEN two Gargoyles who were in B2B with him. I thought this was a bit odd, since at this point the Tyrant Guard and Hive Tyrant had essentially divided the Gargoyle unit in half. Technically the two halves were in unit coherency, barely, so I assume this didn't matter.

I may be wrong on this, but if this is one giant combat the genestealers can't persue the boyz as they are still in CC with the Kans and Dread.

Since the Tyrant Guard are a retinue for the Hive Tyrant...taking your word here...then yes he can attack as he is not an IC until that retinue is destroyed. If it is a squad that he is joined to and not a retinue no he cannot.

As long as everyone is in unit coherency then they are fine.

The genestealers aren't in base contact any more so they can sweep and than move away from combat, they don't have any one that they can pile into. so they are no longer apart of the combat.
The hive tyrant and the guard are a squad, so the hive tyrant doesn't have to be in base contact to be able to attack. At the same time he can still be hit with wound allocation. The hive tyrant isn't an IC. He is acting more or less like a squad upgrade or Sergent.
Models in the same unit have to be with in 2 inches, if they are not they must move so that they are with in 2 inches, this rule doesn't apply to close combats since you can't move your models, so at the start of the close combat that they are out of 2 inches they are fine and attack normal, at the pile in move; any none engaged models have to move and try and keep 2 inches while at the same time getting into base contact. Some times you can't do this, so next turn you try again.

PapaPiggy wrote:The genestealers aren't in base contact any more so they can sweep and than move away from combat, they don't have any one that they can pile into. so they are no longer apart of the combat.

The above is not correct, it was one big combat and the Genestealers could not pursue the boys and would have to make a pile in move towards the kans or the deff dread.

PapaPiggy wrote:The hive tyrant and the guard are a squad, so the hive tyrant doesn't have to be in base contact to be able to attack. At the same time he can still be hit with wound allocation. The hive tyrant isn't an IC. He is acting more or less like a squad upgrade or Sergent.

This part is correct.

PapaPiggy wrote:Models in the same unit have to be with in 2 inches, if they are not they must move so that they are with in 2 inches, this rule doesn't apply to close combats since you can't move your models, so at the start of the close combat that they are out of 2 inches they are fine and attack normal, at the pile in move; any none engaged models have to move and try and keep 2 inches while at the same time getting into base contact. Some times you can't do this, so next turn you try again.

This is correct as well. Coherency can be broken by casualties. But that is okay, you just try to restore coherence as soon as you can.

So the Genestealers should NOT have been able to perform a sweeping advance on my Boyz? They're locked in combat with the Killa Kans / Deff Dread (even though they aren't in B2B with them) and thus can't make a sweeping advance, my Boyz flee from combat, and the Genestealers pile in?

Murrdox wrote:So the Genestealers should NOT have been able to perform a sweeping advance on my Boyz? They're locked in combat with the Killa Kans / Deff Dread (even though they aren't in B2B with them) and thus can't make a sweeping advance, my Boyz flee from combat, and the Genestealers pile in?

Yes Murrdox, that is correct. (not that it matters for the boyz, becaue 4 boys can not rally as they are below 50% unit strength)

Since the boys were in combat with the Genestealers, and they were also in combat with the Hive Tyrant, and the Hive Tyrant was in combat with the Deff dread, the Genestealers are a part of the combat as a whole.

If they make the boys run and are no longer in B2B, they need to Pile into the Deff dread or the Kans.

Deathreaper is correct.

DeathReaper wrote:
(not that it matters, becaue 4 boys can not rally as they are below 50% unit strength)

Actually in apocalypse the green tide formation can wrap them up in itself and they will turn around and behave like part of that unit.

Just sayin

Akroma06 wrote:
Actually in apocalypse the green tide formation can wrap them up in itself and they will turn around and behave like part of that unit.
Just sayin

Not to mention that we weren't talking about Apoc, but yes that is correct for Apoc Games.

DeathReaper wrote:

Akroma06 wrote:
Actually in apocalypse the green tide formation can wrap them up in itself and they will turn around and behave like part of that unit.
Just sayin

Not to mention that we weren't talking about Apoc, but yes that is correct for Apoc Games.

Yes I know...hence the "Just sayin" part of my post, but normally yes they would keep running.

Shoota boys may actually still be able to be affective, and if they get charged and pass morale AND by some miracle win that CC they behave normally.

In apoc, any units near a stompa would also rally