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Feedback, please? While I am not new to 40k, I stopped doing tournaments years ago, but I have and 'Ard Boyz tournament coming up, so I decided to throw in my hat with an Imperial Guard army. I would love to hear any critiques before I go steaming in:

HQ: CCS, plasma pistol, 4 MGs, Officer of the Fleet- 130 pts [riding in Vendetta]
HQ: CCS, plasma pistol, 4 MGs- 100 pts [riding in Vendetta]

ELITE: PBS, Chimera w/ML and HF- 165 pts

TROOPS: Veterans, 3 MGs, 7 shotguns, Chimera w/ML and HF- 155 pts
TROOPS: Veterans, 3 MGs, 7 shotguns, Chimera w/ML and HF- 155 pts
TROOPS: Veterans, 3 MGs, 7 shotguns, Chimera w/ML and HF- 155 pts
TROOPS: Veterans, 3 MGs, 7 shotguns, Chimera w/ML and HF- 155 pts
TROOPS: Veterans, 3 PGs, 7 shotguns, Chimera w/ML and HF- 170 pts
TROOPS: Veterans, 3 PGs, 7 shotguns, Chimera w/ML and HF- 170 pts

FAST: [Vendetta Squadron] 2 Vendetta Gunships- 260 pts
FAST: Vulture Gunship, lascannons, hellstrike missiles, heavy bolter- 120 pts
FAST: Vulture Gunship, lascannons, hellstrike missiles, heavy bolter- 120 pts

HEAVY: [Leman Russ Squadron] 2 Leman Russ Executioners w/lascannons- 410
HEAVY: Hydra Flak Tank- 75
HEAVY: Manticore- 160 pts

Hmm, cant provide anymore feedback then to just go and compare to all the other mech lists out there. They have all the info that you need.

I don't believe Forgeworld rules are allowed at Arboyz, so I don't think the Vulture gunships are legal. That aside, I think is is a mistake to put your Command Squads in the same vendetta squadron. A good round of shooting could bring them both down, and you lose some utility for the first turn alpha strike, because they'll have to stay pretty close to one another.

Also, I want you to think about what you'd do in this scenario: Your opponent has a mostly infantry army and kills your Manticore early.

Vultures are a FW thing so they can't be there. As to the rest...
I wouldn't put the CCS in a Vendetta I'd give them their own Chimera and run the vendettas seperate and empty. With the extra points you could add in a third vendetta. I would also probably rather have 2 Hydras and one Exections or two manticores and 2 Hydras. I don't see the point of the Plasma Pistol on the Company Commander since everyone else has meltas. If you plan on outflanking with the Venettas...and hey who doesn't want to outflank and hit rear armor with 3 TL LC? Then I'd add in an astropath to get them in quicker and on the side you want.

Thank you for taking the time gentlemen. I have carefully digested what you replied, and here is a [legal, now] revision of said army, after some quick responses to your responses.

Biophysical wrote:I don't believe Forgeworld rules are allowed at Arboyz, so I don't think the Vulture gunships are legal. That aside, I think is is a mistake to put your Command Squads in the same vendetta squadron. A good round of shooting could bring them both down, and you lose some utility for the first turn alpha strike, because they'll have to stay pretty close to one another.

Also, I want you to think about what you'd do in this scenario: Your opponent has a mostly infantry army and kills your Manticore early.

That was rather surprising that FW rules aren't cannon. Shows how long I've been out of the loop. javascript:emoticon(''); As I do enjoy a themed list, I wanted a more areal, mobile mech company than many of the other lists I had read on here, hence the Vultures. Also I own the models, they are Gorgeous, and I wanted to use them. Now that they are out, we'll try something more vanilla [sadly].

Hordes was the reason all of my light vehicles mount a heavy flamer, and all of the veterans sling shotguns.

Akroma06 wrote:Vultures are a FW thing so they can't be there. As to the rest...
I wouldn't put the CCS in a Vendetta I'd give them their own Chimera and run the vendettas seperate and empty. With the extra points you could add in a third vendetta. I would also probably rather have 2 Hydras and one Exections or two manticores and 2 Hydras. I don't see the point of the Plasma Pistol on the Company Commander since everyone else has meltas. If you plan on outflanking with the Venettas...and hey who doesn't want to outflank and hit rear armor with 3 TL LC? Then I'd add in an astropath to get them in quicker and on the side you want.

While I don't really want to lose the mobility of mounting up in aircraft, I do see the beauty in outflanking, and the value of storming the enemy from multiple angles. I never really plan on leaving anything in reserves in a tournament (the alpha strike is too important) but the advisers will help and hinder now. I took both suggestions. Now there are 2 Manticore, 2 Hydra AND an Executioner.

And yes, I realize the Executioner is a TON of points in one model with paper for rear armor, hence the camo-netting; and now with Pask, 1 tank does [on average] just as much damage as 2 did before. I've only ever had this tank earn more than its points, but YMMV.

HQ: CCS, 4 MGs, Astropath, Master of Ordnance, Chimera w/ML and HF - 205 pts
HQ: CCS, 4 MGs, Officer of the Fleet - 120 pts [riding in Vendetta]

ELITE: PBS, Chimera w/ML and HF- 165 pts

TROOPS: Veterans, 3 MGs, 7 shotguns - 100 pts [riding in Vendetta]
TROOPS: Veterans, 3 MGs, 7 shotguns - 100 pts [riding in Vendetta]
TROOPS: Veterans, 3 MGs, 7 shotguns, Chimera w/ML and HF- 155 pts
TROOPS: Veterans, 3 MGs, 7 shotguns, Chimera w/ML and HF- 155 pts
TROOPS: Veterans, 3 PGs, 7 shotguns, Chimera w/ML and HF- 170 pts
TROOPS: Veterans, 3 PGs, 7 shotguns, Chimera w/ML and HF- 170 pts

FAST: Vendetta Gunship- 130 pts
FAST: Vendetta Gunship- 130 pts
FAST: Vendetta Gunship- 130 pts

HEAVY: LR Executioner, Knight Commander Pask, camo netting- 300 pts
HEAVY: 2 Hydra Flak Tanks- 150
HEAVY: 2 Manticores- 320 pts

TROOPS: Veterans, 3 MGs, 7 shotguns, Chimera w/ML and HF- 155 pts

Shotguns? Ive never seen ANYONE field them... are they good?

xSoulgrinderx wrote:TROOPS: Veterans, 3 MGs, 7 shotguns, Chimera w/ML and HF- 155 pts

Shotguns? Ive never seen ANYONE field them... are they good?

They will ALWAYS be moving, so I am only going to get 2 S3 shots at 12" anyway, so why not also give myself the option to assault afterward?

If the CCS is moving, your MoO has to be stationary to call in fire (last line in the artilery bombardment rule for them, pg 31 IG Dex). Thus, I wouldn't take one or re-build your CCS to make use of it. I would honestly consider dropping the Chimera and get Camo Cloaks, a Lascannon, and 2x plasma guns. You can now give the CCS 'Bring it Down!' to itself and now use the MoO.

Taking shotguns on the Vets gets rid of your ability to FRFSRF for your vets. Although when you drive out, pop out of the Chimera, and smoke a transport, you'd still be able to assault the contents whether you had shotguns or not, as long as you didn't fire your lasguns. If you're not popping transports then you're running melta vets up to infantry, and you probably don't want to be there anyway. Just sayin', I think having the ability to assault after shooting won't make a different in the role the vets typically go for.

You could keep the plasma Vets shotguns since they're more likely to be shooting at infantry.

Also, the plasma pistols in your melta CCS seem useless. The melta guys will be shooting at vehicles where the plasma pistol won't do much. If you're aiming to block yourself from, say, DSing termies or something then make the whole squad plasma. If you want to plink off somebody with the plamsa pistol before you hit them in assault with a 5 man squad, you're still better off firing a stream of plasma instead.

Shotguns have always worked for me so I like them...it gives you the option to assault if need be. That ork nob squad is bearing down on you and you can then unload a full barrage hopefully killing 4 or so then charging...yes you might still lose but better you get the charge bonus and even things up a little than him get the charge and you have no chance. I also am a big fan of the hull HF.

I think you might have misunderstood me on the hs (maybe I misspoke or wasn't clear), but you can't have that current load out. Manticores cannot be squadroned. Usually I'll take 2 and either 2 Hydras or an executioner. You can also take one executioner, 2 hydras and one mantioce. (this is probably the better load out). With the extra points buy chimeras for squads in vendettas as you cannot shoot out of vendettas and being in melta range puts you precariously close to the enemy. If you have to put guys in them then put the PG veterans as they can dissembark and fire 12"...while it isn't good its safer.

Instead of pask I'd see if you can give the netting to the mantiocres as they will be hiding in back and this way you can draw LOS to an enemy squad and still benefit from the cover. With those extra points from the manitcore add in some plasma sponsons...just for that over the top feel, and truly dead squad on the other side...camo netting would of course be optimal for pretty much all HS.

I have also never been able to get my points back on the MoO. He just misses way to often for my liking.

The shotguns vs. lasgun question is more aesthetic than anything. Technically shotguns have the advantage if you want to assault, while lasguns have range and FRFSRF!, but neither are really breaking open unique abilities for the unit. Personally, I'd just match up squad weapons with the special weapon. Meltas let you assault, so you might as well keep that ability in your squad weapons (shotguns). Plasma is rapid fire, so you might as well keep range and usage overlaps with lasguns.

You may want to look and see if you can do any light conversion work on the Vulture to give it Vendetta armament. You may not want to do this if you really like the model, but its an option to consider.

I brought up hordes initially, because the two big CC horde armies (Orcs and Tyranids) are Fleet (only for one turn with the Orcs, but it matters), allowing them to assault from outside your Chimera heavy flamer threat range.

FRFSRF is useful but not if the squad is still in the chimera as you cannot order a squad if they are inside a transport. Fleet units can charge from about 15-16" on average so you should be able to tell about the time they start getting to that point...usually turn 2 but maybe 3 if you have been redeploying through movement. A manticore by itself is enough to rout sevel boys squads or gaunt squads. If they make it that close to your chimera you just pull up hop the whole squad out and go to shooting. You may loose a squad or too but the transport won't die (usually with it goes the squad inside too.)

That ork nob squad is bearing down on you and you can then unload a full barrage hopefully killing 4

You must have some seriously lucky dice rolls to to kill 4 with SHOTGUNS, thats 8 wounds, if the ork player had a brain and put a save on them, maybe a painboy, you might be lucky to do 2 wounds, even then there would be a wound group, at ard boyz im pretty sure people make their nobz differentiate, meaning you have to do say 10 wounds before the ork palyer is required to remove a model in a squad of 10, as they have 2 wounds Hence there's not much point, at the end of the day, no matter how big your guardsmen squad is, even if it is goign to rapid lasgun fire or whatever order it is, against a full nob squad thats in charge range next turn, guardsmen dead. Non power klaw nobz strike at initiave 4, as far as i know thats higher than a guardsmen

Shotguns arent worth it, take the lasguns and use gunports, driving straight into an infantry mob like nobz in a chimera is a death wish anyway

shotguns all the way! you are NOT gonna stay stationary.

Suprised no one mention it sooner but you cant take manticores in squadrons.

BlkTom wrote:If the CCS is moving, your MoO has to be stationary to call in fire (last line in the artilery bombardment rule for them, pg 31 IG Dex). Thus, I wouldn't take one or re-build your CCS to make use of it.

Good point. We'll consider it.

Biophysical wrote:The shotguns vs. lasgun question is more aesthetic than anything. Technically shotguns have the advantage if you want to assault, while lasguns have range and FRFSRF!, but neither are really breaking open unique abilities for the unit. Personally, I'd just match up squad weapons with the special weapon. Meltas let you assault, so you might as well keep that ability in your squad weapons (shotguns). Plasma is rapid fire, so you might as well keep range and usage overlaps with lasguns.

You may want to look and see if you can do any light conversion work on the Vulture to give it Vendetta armament. You may not want to do this if you really like the model, but its an option to consider.

I brought up hordes initially, because the two big CC horde armies (Orcs and Tyranids) are Fleet (only for one turn with the Orcs, but it matters), allowing them to assault from outside your Chimera heavy flamer threat range.

It's 'mech guard and my CCS's are glorified vet squads on a suicide charge towards the nearest MeQ LR. I didn't really see a lot of FRFSRF going on.

No need to convert the Vultures, I own a few Vendettas and a few Valkyries already [and what's with the GW alliteration? All V's?]

I honestly considered a 3xHellhound squad to help with Hordes, but scoring units took precedence. The idea is to use template weapons to thin out the assaulting units, then use HF to clean up after the charge, depending on how many survive. If a glorified assault army [GK deathstar, etc] comes at me, they will either try to overpower me by ganging up in one location, or spread out to assault multiple units. If they group up, I can maneuver to the otehr side of the board. If they spread out, I can pie plate it piecemeal. The shortcomings of rng 8" weapons can be overcome by mobility.

Orkaswampa wrote:

That ork nob squad is bearing down on you and you can then unload a full barrage hopefully killing 4

You must have some seriously lucky dice rolls to to kill 4 with SHOTGUNS, thats 8 wounds, if the ork player had a brain and put a save on them, maybe a painboy, you might be lucky to do 2 wounds, even then there would be a wound group, at ard boyz im pretty sure people make their nobz differentiate, meaning you have to do say 10 wounds before the ork palyer is required to remove a model in a squad of 10, as they have 2 wounds Hence there's not much point, at the end of the day, no matter how big your guardsmen squad is, even if it is goign to rapid lasgun fire or whatever order it is, against a full nob squad thats in charge range next turn, guardsmen dead. Non power klaw nobz strike at initiave 4, as far as i know thats higher than a guardsmen

Shotguns arent worth it, take the lasguns and use gunports, driving straight into an infantry mob like nobz in a chimera is a death wish anyway

Pretty sure the rules for multiple-wound-model units say that you have to remove whole models where possible, meaning you can't give all the nobs one failed save of a wound before you start doubling up and removing models.

Tomb King wrote:Suprised no one mention it sooner but you cant take manticores in squadrons.

Yeah, a few people brought this up. I'm actually surprised that I've been playing IG as long as I have and I'm still making assumptions, like that ALL artillery comes in squadrons now without doing something trivial, like say, reading the 'dex. SOOO...we'll adjust that soon too. I only own 1 manticore that's completed right now anyways. Sorry for the confusion and making such an obvious mistake for so long.

Pretty sure the rules for multiple-wound-model units say that you have to remove whole models where possible, meaning you can't give all the nobs one failed save of a wound before you start doubling up and removing models.

If you differentiate models, you are exempt to that rule as every model is different, so if i had 5 nobz, each one with different upgrades, none the same, i am allowed to assign 5 wounds, and THEn i would have to take models off, as they would have 1 wound left, as i did say by differentiate Thats why nob squads can be so tough, especially nob bikers, they are scary! But yes then you have the 5+ inv save / 4+ armour save, if you take them which you should take ONE, not both, (Cybork only if painboy), then feel no pain, so the odds of actually killing a nob from a tournament squad (player with brain) is very low