HP Crashes and Burns- Dumps Tablets/Phones, maybe PCs???

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**WarOne**

So Apple slays another competitior with its superior marketing and clout established by successive years of making a popular product and backing it up with service.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9219309/HP_s_PC_Business_Spin_Off_Could_Benefit_Consumers?taxonomyId=15

PC World - HP just announced that it will stop selling WebOS devices (phones and TouchPad), and may spin off the rest of its PSG (Personal Systems Group) into a separate company. Or sell it some to other company. Or...well, it seems that HP doesn't really have a firm idea of what to do with the PSG--the division responsible for desktop and laptop PCs--except that it doesn't want to keep it around anymore.

Its exact words were, "HP will consider a broad range of options that may include, among others, a full or partial separation of PSG from HP through a spin-off or other transaction." This major shift could actually be a very good thing both for HP and for consumers. If HP could refocus, it might be able to make great PCs again.

Why would HP want to get rid of the PSG group when it makes so many of the products that the public associates with the HP brand? Simply put, it doesn't make enough money. Enterprise servers and services deliver healthy profit margins. The printer business brings in big bucks, too. There's plenty of profit in selling ink for thousands of dollars a gallon, after all. HP's PC business, on the other hand, has been sagging. Part of the problem is the market, where sales of laptops and desktops have been soft due to a weak economy and stiff competition for your dollar from tablets and smartphones. Even so, most of HP's PC sales have been low-margin products. Simply put, HP wants to pull the same move IBM did when it sold its ThinkPad business to Lenovo more than 6 years ago.

This isn't necessarily a bad deal for consumers, though. After all, Lenovo has continued to produce excellent business laptops and make good money at it. The HP situation is slightly different in that it sells a lot of consumer PCs, while IBM was focused on volume sales to businesses. A spun-off HP PC division could be just what the doctor ordered, as long as it commits to making a few serious changes. It boils down to three things: push the envelope, focus on design, and dump the low-cost junk.

I wrote recently about the inability for Windows-based laptop manufacturers to duplicate Apple's ability to innovate in meaningful ways. A new business built from the bricks of HP's PC division needs to have the willingness to be agile and insightful. It has to take risks on bringing the future of computing to the market, today. This might actually be a possibility. A new company wouldn't have all the bureaucracy and multiple layers of risk-adverse middle managers worried about their future in a company that is so much bigger than just PCs. Innovation tends to come from focused, autonomous groups that aren't burdened by an overabundance of MBAs armed with spreadsheets.

The new home of HP's PC business, be it a new company or an existing one, should focus on design, as opposed to making computers that do "everything for everyone." It should worry less about how to fit the mix-and-match parts from Chinese suppliers into a new case design and start engineering entire PCs with a focus on the future. Of course, it won't have the time and manpower to do that if it still insists on making a bunch of cheap PCs, which brings us to the third point...

The new company should ditch all those crummy, cheap PCs. HP has no less than six lines of laptops: Mini, Pavilion, Envy, ProBook, EliteBook, and Essential. Each has a bunch of models, typically denoted by seemingly random strings of letters and numbers. Desktops are just as bad, with Pavilion, Omni, TouchSmart, Essential, and Pro. That doesn't even get into the Compaq models! Many of these are stuck in a "race to the bottom," trying to pick up sales in the $300-600 price range. Most of these products aren't great. And they're not great for HP either: They have razor-thin margins and they eat up precious design and manufacturing resources.

I'd like to see the company that ends up with HP's PC business drop half of these lines and focus on premium, forward-looking products that start at no less than $799. HP shouldn't even bother with cheap materials, bulky enclosures, and crummy keyboards and mice. Rather than a PC business that scales from "cheap to great," the goal should be to start off at "great" and try to extend from there. Let the other guys fight over the $20 margin of a $400 all-in-one desktop.

Will HP spin off its PC business? We don't know for sure, but it sure sounds like the company would like to. Frankly, with a few exceptions, the PC side of HP's house has grown messy in recent years. If the new company acquires whatever relevant patents HP holds in its Personal Systems Group, it could be a blessing. A leaner and more aggressive company, focused on quality over volume, could do wonders for HP's sagging PC business, and deliver exciting new products for consumers, too.

**ineptus astartes**

as a mac user, I feel ashamed.

**WarOne**

ineptus astartes wrote:as a mac user, I feel ashamed.

You shouldn't feel ashamed.

When you build and nurture a well rounded product, build the chain of stores to sell and market it, and build the service that keeps the fanbase, your product will have a significant advantage over other places that don't offer the things that conumers want unless you can beat them in what comsumers want (perhaps with price...).

**htj**

Sounds good to me. The more a company tries to do, the less it does well. At the risk of sounding like a business tosser, it's good that they've chosen to focus on their core competencies rather than over-extending themselves into too many markets. It's not a sustainable business model. Certain other companies will probably be realising that soon too.

**biccat**

WarOne wrote:When you build and nurture a well rounded product, build the chain of stores to sell and market it, and build the service that keeps the fanbase, your product will have a significant advantage over other places that don't offer the things that conumers want unless you can beat them in what comsumers want (perhaps with price...).

This explains why the Mac OS is the most popular operating systetm in the world and why more Apple computers are sold than any other computer systems.

While Macs are more user friendly than a PC for new users, for anyone who is experienced with a computer the Windows OS simply has a lot more utility. Plus, for the price of a decent Mac, you can get a much more powerful PC (or you could pay less and get the same quality PC). But Macs provide a good looking product with a stable operating system that is easily accessible to most people. But you pay a premium for the brand.

Honestly, I've got nothing against the computers, it's Apple fanboys I can't stand.

**remilia_scarlet**

I'm a linux user and what is this?

**WarOne**

biccat wrote:Honestly, I've got nothing against the computers, it's Apple fanboys I can't stand.

To wit, they do have legitimate reason to praise the company that makes sound, backed-up products and has the support structure for it.

HP dived into the market, bought out the pieces here and there to Frankenstein a tablet, and honestly put no support in place other than featuring the item in Best Buy amongst a clutter of other tablet clones that don't do as well as the I-pad.

Reverse to what Apple did, they looked at the success of their earlier products, researched what people want, put those into the machine they build, made sure it worked, sold it at their stores complete with positive, eager sellers who talked up the product, and then had on standby the online structure to support the product with applications and customer service to ensure no i-pad user would go unanswered (even if not 100% satisfied) if a problem arose.

That's why Apple-fans can preach- no other tablet maker has done this yet.

**htj**

remilia_scarlet wrote:I'm a linux user and what is this?

Oh, you have a PC made by Linux? It's not made by a computer manufacturor, like HP (was) but rather by an operating system? That's clever of you.

**WarOne**

remilia_scarlet wrote:I'm a linux user and what is this?

A bit of NSFW language:

Spoiler:

**htj**

WarOne wrote:That's why Apple-fans can preach- no other tablet maker has done this yet.

I think this gives Apple a right to preach, but I wouldn't attribute any kind of moral superiority to someone who merely purchases their products. Especially not someone who would consider themselves a 'fan' of the company, as those people are usually extremely blinkered to the flaws of the corporation and the products.

**Troy**

ineptus astartes wrote:as a mac user, I feel ashamed.

You should, but thats because you're a Mac user

Computers are tools, like sporks. Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, they are all sporks. Apples are just more expensive sporks that get glitchy if I true to do business items on them.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Troy wrote:
ineptus astartes wrote:as a mac user, I feel ashamed.

You should, but thats because you're a Mac user

Computers are tools, like sporks. Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, they are all sporks. Apples are just more expensive sporks that get glitchy if I true to do business items on them.

Why is Apple proud of a pad? These were out before Apple, there's lots of competition, and its just a time waster. You can't actually Do like any sort of real work on a Pad.

**biccat**

Honestly, I have no experience with tablets. In my opinion, they're overpriced and under-useful. The only utility I could see from a tablet would be as an ebook, and dedicated devices do that better for less.

My comment was directed towards the PC business, because laptops and desktops are a much more important part of HP's business than tablets. Apple sells products featuring substantially the same components that go into an HP or Dell, the only exceptions being the packaging and operating system.

**WarOne**

htj wrote:
WarOne wrote:That's why Apple-fans can preach- no other tablet maker has done this yet.

I think this gives Apple a right to preach, but I wouldn't attribute any kind of moral superiority to someone who merely purchases their products. Especially not someone who would consider themselves a 'fan' of the company, as those people are usually extremely blinkered to the flaws of the corporation and the products.

Are you kidding? Mac users shoot out of their bums streams of radiant light that, when bottled up, are sold on uk ebay for 200 pounds an ounce!

AN OUNCE!!!

While they don't have moral superiority, it is as much a product made by them as it is not made by them at all (the input Apple uses to keep their customer base in essence makes their profit margins as large as they have been).

Without the Apple fans to drive the interest and talk up the product (can you think of anything better, customers selling the product for you), how many less ipads would of been sold?

**htj**

WarOne wrote:
htj wrote:
WarOne wrote:That's why Apple-fans can preach- no other tablet maker has done this yet.

I think this gives Apple a right to preach, but I wouldn't attribute any kind of moral superiority to someone who merely purchases their products. Especially not someone who would consider themselves a 'fan' of the company, as those people are usually extremely blinkered to the flaws of the corporation and the products.

Are you kidding? Mac users shoot out of their bums streams of radiant light that, when bottled up, are sold on uk ebay for 200 pounds an ounce!

AN OUNCE!!!

Ah, well, you know, Mac-fans will pay all sorts of ludicrous prices for any old thing.

**remilia_scarlet**

WarOne wrote:
remilia_scarlet wrote:I'm a linux user and what is this?

A bit of NSFW language:

Spoiler:

Oh my god, I like linux even more.

**WarOne**

biccat wrote:My comment was directed towards the PC business, because laptops and desktops are a much more important part of HP's business than tablets.

And HP is looking to eliminate the PC business of their company altogether.

Razor-thin margins and all for profit.

**htj**

WarOne wrote:While they don't have moral superiority, it is as much a product made by them as it is not made by them at all (the input Apple uses to keep their customer base in essence makes their profit margins as large as they have been).

Without the Apple fans to drive the interest and talk up the product (can you think of anything better, customers selling the product for you), how many less ipads would of been sold?

See, I think this is what causes the hate. Most people talk up their Mac because it looks (a matter of taste) nice and because everyone knows how expensive they are. Conspicuous consumption may help sell units, but it doesn't help make friends.

**biccat**

WarOne wrote:
biccat wrote:My comment was directed towards the PC business, because laptops and desktops are a much more important part of HP's business than tablets.

And HP is looking to eliminate the PC business of their company altogether.

Razor-thin margins and all for profit.

HP isn't eliminating the PC business because of Apple. They're eliminating it because the division isn't as profitable as others where they could direct their efforts. HP sells ~26% of PCs, Dell 22%, and Apple is a distant third at 10%. HP has little to fear from Apple.

**remilia_scarlet**

htj wrote:
remilia_scarlet wrote:I'm a linux user and what is this?

Oh, you have a PC made by Linux? It's not made by a computer manufacturor, like HP (was) but rather by an operating system? That's clever of you.

Android.jpg

**WarOne**

biccat wrote:
HP isn't eliminating the PC business because of Apple. They're eliminating it because the division isn't as profitable as others where they could direct their efforts. HP sells ~26% of PCs, Dell 22%, and Apple is a distant third at 10%. HP has little to fear from Apple.

True, but they are looking to eliminate that aspect of their corporate model.

If you look at profit of HP versus Applie, Apple beats HP. But because of the surge of interest in tablets, the PC market in America has become barely profitable. Apple has some fault there in HP's decision. True the PC market is mature and barely growing because of the glut of PCs to begin with, but HP is jumping the ship before it gets to that point.

**htj**

See, now, what biccat has put up there really puts this into perspective. HP is a huge company, produces all sorts of hardware. If they're dropping something that has such a big market share, then it's not because they've been muscled out, but rather that they no longer want to be putting so much industry into a low return sector. It's rare that a company has been hit hard by focussing on being the best in a particular area, but spreading yourself too far across the board tends to result in producing a lower quality product in all areas.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

remilia_scarlet wrote:
htj wrote:
remilia_scarlet wrote:I'm a linux user and what is this?

Oh, you have a PC made by Linux? It's not made by a computer manufacturor, like HP (was) but rather by an operating system? That's clever of you.

Android.jpg

Acer, HTC, LG, Samsung, Motorola, Sony Ericsson, et al. Your point being?

**daedalus**

To be fair, the OS Wars are profoundly stupid. First off, all the OS ACTUALLY means to Joe Sixpack anymore is what the decoration around his web browser looks like as he's logging into facebook. The computer is the web browser to the vast majority of people. Other than that, the best OS is the one that gets the job done.

At home, I have my Windows 7 box for gaming, movies, and listening to music. I have my Debian laptop for 'real' things: network stuff, programming, and keeping work close to home when necessary. I actually even have an old G4 that I have photoshop on, not that it's good for much else.

OS fanboyism is using a screwdriver when a hammer would be much more effective.

**Troy**

WarOne wrote:
biccat wrote:
HP isn't eliminating the PC business because of Apple. They're eliminating it because the division isn't as profitable as others where they could direct their efforts. HP sells ~26% of PCs, Dell 22%, and Apple is a distant third at 10%. HP has little to fear from Apple.

True, but they are looking to eliminate that aspect of their corporate model.

If you look at profit of HP versus Applie, Apple beats HP. But because of the surge of interest in tablets, the PC market in America has become barely profitable. Apple has some fault there in HP's decision. True the PC market is mature and barely growing because of the glut of PCs to begin with, but HP is jumping the ship before it gets to that point.

Its not because of tablets. The desktop market has been in the crapper for some time, as in years. When HP bought Compaq they were in the crapper. Laptops have been following that trend as well. With the advent of 25M different tablets and smart phones those markets will be diluted within a short span as well. Its the nature of the beast.

**halonachos**

WarOne wrote:
biccat wrote:
HP isn't eliminating the PC business because of Apple. They're eliminating it because the division isn't as profitable as others where they could direct their efforts. HP sells ~26% of PCs, Dell 22%, and Apple is a distant third at 10%. HP has little to fear from Apple.

True, but they are looking to eliminate that aspect of their corporate model.

If you look at profit of HP versus Applie, Apple beats HP. But because of the surge of interest in tablets, the PC market in America has become barely profitable. Apple has some fault there in HP's decision. True the PC market is mature and barely growing because of the glut of PCs to begin with, but HP is jumping the ship before it gets to that point.

I see mostly Asus, Sylvania, or Coby tablets. Other than that there are iPads which I detest as being giant ipod touches which get rid of the purpose of an ipod. Hell I don't even grab the concept of a tablet.

"Its a miniature computer!"

"So do you use it at home?"

"No, I use it on the go."

"Does it fit in your pocket?"

"No I had to get a carrying case for it."

"Why didn't you get a laptop?"

"Because its easier to carry around?"

"So why did you get a carrying case if its easy to carry around?"