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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Spitsbergen

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=1


Stop Coddling the Super-Rich
By WARREN E. BUFFETT
Published: August 14, 2011

OUR leaders have asked for “shared sacrifice.” But when they did the asking, they spared me. I checked with my mega-rich friends to learn what pain they were expecting. They, too, were left untouched.

While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks. Some of us are investment managers who earn billions from our daily labors but are allowed to classify our income as “carried interest,” thereby getting a bargain 15 percent tax rate. Others own stock index futures for 10 minutes and have 60 percent of their gain taxed at 15 percent, as if they’d been long-term investors.

These and other blessings are showered upon us by legislators in Washington who feel compelled to protect us, much as if we were spotted owls or some other endangered species. It’s nice to have friends in high places.

Last year my federal tax bill — the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf — was $6,938,744. That sounds like a lot of money. But what I paid was only 17.4 percent of my taxable income — and that’s actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent and averaged 36 percent.

If you make money with money, as some of my super-rich friends do, your percentage may be a bit lower than mine. But if you earn money from a job, your percentage will surely exceed mine — most likely by a lot.

To understand why, you need to examine the sources of government revenue. Last year about 80 percent of these revenues came from personal income taxes and payroll taxes. The mega-rich pay income taxes at a rate of 15 percent on most of their earnings but pay practically nothing in payroll taxes. It’s a different story for the middle class: typically, they fall into the 15 percent and 25 percent income tax brackets, and then are hit with heavy payroll taxes to boot.

Back in the 1980s and 1990s, tax rates for the rich were far higher, and my percentage rate was in the middle of the pack. According to a theory I sometimes hear, I should have thrown a fit and refused to invest because of the elevated tax rates on capital gains and dividends.

I didn’t refuse, nor did others. I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain. People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off. And to those who argue that higher rates hurt job creation, I would note that a net of nearly 40 million jobs were added between 1980 and 2000. You know what’s happened since then: lower tax rates and far lower job creation.

Since 1992, the I.R.S. has compiled data from the returns of the 400 Americans reporting the largest income. In 1992, the top 400 had aggregate taxable income of $16.9 billion and paid federal taxes of 29.2 percent on that sum. In 2008, the aggregate income of the highest 400 had soared to $90.9 billion — a staggering $227.4 million on average — but the rate paid had fallen to 21.5 percent.

The taxes I refer to here include only federal income tax, but you can be sure that any payroll tax for the 400 was inconsequential compared to income. In fact, 88 of the 400 in 2008 reported no wages at all, though every one of them reported capital gains. Some of my brethren may shun work but they all like to invest. (I can relate to that.)

I know well many of the mega-rich and, by and large, they are very decent people. They love America and appreciate the opportunity this country has given them. Many have joined the Giving Pledge, promising to give most of their wealth to philanthropy. Most wouldn’t mind being told to pay more in taxes as well, particularly when so many of their fellow citizens are truly suffering.

Twelve members of Congress will soon take on the crucial job of rearranging our country’s finances. They’ve been instructed to devise a plan that reduces the 10-year deficit by at least $1.5 trillion. It’s vital, however, that they achieve far more than that. Americans are rapidly losing faith in the ability of Congress to deal with our country’s fiscal problems. Only action that is immediate, real and very substantial will prevent that doubt from morphing into hopelessness. That feeling can create its own reality.

Job one for the 12 is to pare down some future promises that even a rich America can’t fulfill. Big money must be saved here. The 12 should then turn to the issue of revenues. I would leave rates for 99.7 percent of taxpayers unchanged and continue the current 2-percentage-point reduction in the employee contribution to the payroll tax. This cut helps the poor and the middle class, who need every break they can get.

But for those making more than $1 million — there were 236,883 such households in 2009 — I would raise rates immediately on taxable income in excess of $1 million, including, of course, dividends and capital gains. And for those who make $10 million or more — there were 8,274 in 2009 — I would suggest an additional increase in rate.

My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress. It’s time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice.

Warren E. Buffett is the chairman and chief executive of Berkshire Hathaway.


Discuss.

I personally think Buffet is right on the money. (heh heh)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/19 23:43:51


 
   
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The Great State of New Jersey

Why couldnt he be younger? would make a great president, unfortunately his age would be used against him if he even thought about it...

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
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The first 12 of this sums up how the "richies" feel about it:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/thu-august-18-2011-anne-hathaway?xrs=share_copy

And so, due to rising costs of maintaining the Golden Throne, the Emperor's finest accountants spoke to the Demigurg. A deal was forged in blood and extensive paperwork for a sub-prime mortgage with a 5/1 ARM on the Imperial Palace. And lo, in the following years the housing market did tumble and the rate skyrocketed leaving the Emperor's coffers bare. A dark time has begun for the Imperium, the tithes can not keep up with the balloon payments and the Imperial Palace and its contents, including the Golden Throne, have fallen into foreclosure. With an impending auction on the horizon mankind holds its breath as it waits to see who will gain possession of the corpse-god and thus, the fate of humanity...... 
   
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mattyboy22 wrote:The first 12 of this sums up how the "richies" feel about it:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/thu-august-18-2011-anne-hathaway?xrs=share_copy


" 99.6% have refrigerators??...you food chilling mother ****er's.."... , absolutely hysterical...but sadly indicative of how many seem to actually think.


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mattyboy22 wrote:The first 12 of this sums up how the "richies" feel about it:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/thu-august-18-2011-anne-hathaway?xrs=share_copy

Me and my father watched this and just began screaming. The best line was this from our yelling:

"I'm going to take a blowtorch, jam in in Ann Coulter's chest, and try and melt that ice heart of hers."
"I'm not going near her chest, thank you!"

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Buffett is a frustrating example of why people who make a lot of money aren't necessarily smart. He doesn't pay a high rate of taxes because he doesn't earn "income" like normal people do. He makes more cash from his investments (Capital Gains) than anything else, and those are taxed at a 25% rate. I wonder how much his receptionist makes. If she's making $100K or more, then she's going to be paying 35% in Federal Income Taxes.

I have a low opinion of Buffett anyway as he's a bottom feeder off of the Death Tax. He likes the death tax ( and keeps pushing for it to be higher) because it has enabled him to take advantage of people when they have to sell an estate to pay off the 55% Tax. He'll buy it for pennies on the dollar so the family of the estate can pay off the government and he can then either sit on the property and wait for it to grow in value or turn it for more cash. He's done this hundreds of times and this is how he made his money (along with a massive quantity of overinflated shares of the Berkshire-Hathaway Holding Company, which he created), he's no sage or saint, he's a bottom feeder that will drag the waters for more people in desperate need of money so they can pay the Federal Government. I don't like his message, if he's willing to pay more, there's nothing stopping him. The Fed website has a page to where you can write checks to the government. What's the hold up?

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Stormrider wrote:He makes more cash from his investments (Capital Gains) than anything else, and those are taxed at a 25% rate.


15% actually. However, he could take the profits from Berkshire Hathaway, of which he's CEO, as salary (and be taxed at 35%) instead of stock dividends, but he chooses not to.

text removed by Moderation team. 
   
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Stormrider wrote: I wonder how much his receptionist makes. If she's making $100K or more, then she's going to be paying 35% in Federal Income Taxes.


The threshold for 35% is north of 350,000 per anum.

Also, his receptionist is not relevant as she is not ultra rich, and that is the only group Buffet's message relates to.

Stormrider wrote:
I have a low opinion of Buffett anyway as he's a bottom feeder off of the Death Tax. He likes the death tax ( and keeps pushing for it to be higher) because it has enabled him to take advantage of people when they have to sell an estate to pay off the 55% Tax.


First, its an estate tax not a death tax. Second, it is incurred on the transfer the taxable estate of a deceased person, not simply for dieing. Third, it is nowhere near 55%.



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Dogma, don't try arguing the point. They clearly already decided Warren Buffet is evil incarnate.

CoALabaer wrote:
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I have to agree with Chaos. They've made out Mr. Buffet as some sort of satanistic person.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/20 04:41:25


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(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)

Stormrider wrote:Buffett is a frustrating example of why people who make a lot of money aren't necessarily smart. He doesn't pay a high rate of taxes because he doesn't earn "income" like normal people do. He makes more cash from his investments (Capital Gains) than anything else, and those are taxed at a 25% rate. I wonder how much his receptionist makes. If she's making $100K or more, then she's going to be paying 35% in Federal Income Taxes.

I have a low opinion of Buffett anyway as he's a bottom feeder off of the Death Tax. He likes the death tax ( and keeps pushing for it to be higher) because it has enabled him to take advantage of people when they have to sell an estate to pay off the 55% Tax. He'll buy it for pennies on the dollar so the family of the estate can pay off the government and he can then either sit on the property and wait for it to grow in value or turn it for more cash. He's done this hundreds of times and this is how he made his money (along with a massive quantity of overinflated shares of the Berkshire-Hathaway Holding Company, which he created), he's no sage or saint, he's a bottom feeder that will drag the waters for more people in desperate need of money so they can pay the Federal Government. I don't like his message, if he's willing to pay more, there's nothing stopping him. The Fed website has a page to where you can write checks to the government. What's the hold up?






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chowderhead wrote:I have to agree with Chaos. They've made out Mr. Buffet as some sort of satanistic person.


Stormrider lives on a parallel earth where things are twisted and backwards.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/08/20 04:46:59


----------------

Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad 
   
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chaos0xomega wrote:Dogma, don't try arguing the point. They clearly already decided Warren Buffet is evil incarnate.


Chaos Fish have to swim (chaotically). Matt Ward has to write fluff. dogma has to logicmafy.

It's the nature of the world.

But Warren Buffet is not expousing a new point of view.

It's been talked about and has been beaten into the ground over the recent past and prior generations. How much should the rich fork over? Are they entitled to give money to the government if they decide to start taking away their wealth?

   
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chaos0xomega wrote:Dogma, don't try arguing the point. They clearly already decided Warren Buffet is evil incarnate.


I'm always somewhat bemused by the tendency of the American middle class to be most opposed to taxes of any sort, even those that do not effect them. I suppose its a derivation of the tendency of middle class citizens to be politically, and therefore ideologically, active.

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If I could hug warren buffet I would

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Crablezworth wrote:If I could hug warren buffet I would


Hell, i'd even do it for cheap!

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Stormrider wrote:Buffett is a frustrating example of why people who make a lot of money aren't necessarily smart. He doesn't pay a high rate of taxes because he doesn't earn "income" like normal people do. He makes more cash from his investments (Capital Gains) than anything else, and those are taxed at a 25% rate. I wonder how much his receptionist makes. If she's making $100K or more, then she's going to be paying 35% in Federal Income Taxes.

I have a low opinion of Buffett anyway as he's a bottom feeder off of the Death Tax. He likes the death tax ( and keeps pushing for it to be higher) because it has enabled him to take advantage of people when they have to sell an estate to pay off the 55% Tax. He'll buy it for pennies on the dollar so the family of the estate can pay off the government and he can then either sit on the property and wait for it to grow in value or turn it for more cash. He's done this hundreds of times and this is how he made his money (along with a massive quantity of overinflated shares of the Berkshire-Hathaway Holding Company, which he created), he's no sage or saint, he's a bottom feeder that will drag the waters for more people in desperate need of money so they can pay the Federal Government. I don't like his message, if he's willing to pay more, there's nothing stopping him. The Fed website has a page to where you can write checks to the government. What's the hold up?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/5115920.stm

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To me, the entire issue is about how much the jobs the "rich" people perform are worth. To me, it's almost perverse how much a CEO of a successful financial company can earn. Then again, I'm a socialist, so my opinion is about as valued by some as the opinion of Castro. I find it hilarious how CEOs and the likes can sit in an interview and say, with a straight face, that they deserve every single penny and that the lazy workers should "work harder". Same thing I can't stand with football (soccer, if you feel that way) players; I just can't see why they need to earn more money in a year than an average worker earns in his/her entire life.

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dogma wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:Dogma, don't try arguing the point. They clearly already decided Warren Buffet is evil incarnate.


I'm always somewhat bemused by the tendency of the American middle class to be most opposed to taxes of any sort, even those that do not effect them. I suppose its a derivation of the tendency of middle class citizens to be politically, and therefore ideologically, active.


John Steinbeck once said that 'socialism never took root in America because the poor here see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

You can't ok taxes on the rich when clearly any day now your ship will come in and you'll be rich too.
   
 
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