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I know the game is "28mm Scale" but I have no idea what this actual means in relation to real world terms. In "Flames of War" the scale is 1/100, which I assume means a model of a Panzer is 100 times smaller than its real world counterpart.

The reason that I'm asking this and putting it in Background is I was reading about the Imperial Guard Deathstrike Missile (before the FAQ changed it to simply "Unlimited") having a 80 foot range and wondering what its "actual" range is in miles.

The Deathstrike is an ICBM.

Well for Flames of War, that's sadly not true though. A panser is far more than 100 times the weight/size of that model.

As for 80 feet, it's safe to say that's one hell of a long distance, and essentially unlimited.

Really, trying to put an 'absolute scale' is tough. A SM is some 7ft (jury still out) tall and is only 1-1.5 on the table. So that would be 1/72. But that's not really accurate.

So my answer is sadly, scale is mixed and that's just a fancy way to say "our miniatures sit on 28mm bases"

Iirc, Wh40k uses "heroic scale", meaning that anyone is supposed to look badass and size differences between infantry are negligible. Vehicles are probably likewise limited, at least when you'd compare a Rhino to a Land Raider...

So yeah, not much to draw proper comparisons from. I'd just go with guessing what will look and feel the best as per the description of the model in question.

Hashbeth wrote:Well for Flames of War, that's sadly not true though. A panser is far more than 100 times the weight/size of that model.

The scale is nothing to do with the weight. Flames of War is roughly 1/100 scale.


40K's scale is a little out of whack because of the exaggerated proportions of the models, and the truncated ground scale on weapons ranges. 28mm is roughly 1:56 scale, but ranges are a little harder to pin down to a particular scale.

the ranges in 40k are not exactly equivilant.


It has been said that within certain distances, the represented distance scale changes.

like within 6", 1" equals 6'

between 6" and 12", 1" equals about 10'

12" to 24", 1" equals about 100 feet

24"+, 1" equals 100 yards.

0.85mi using 1/56 scale and 80' range given.

54.5mi using 1" = 100 yards

Big difference.

Weapon ranges are not a linear 1"= X' or Xm.
It's a sliding scale.
0-6" - probably on the order of up to 20m
0-12" - 50-80m or so.
0-18" - 150m or so (shuriken catapults are closest to submachineguns. This equates to max effective range on an smg).
0-24" - 3-400m (normall effective range for an assault rifle.)
0-36" - 800-1000m (not atypical ranges for sniper rifles)
0-48" - 1.5-2km (anti-tank missiles)
0-72" - 3-4km (based off the effective range of a 120mm tank main gun today - a Leman Russ, according to IA fluff has a 120mm gun).
Deathstrike - InterContinental Ballistic Missile (ICBM). Range is from many 10s of km up to several thousand.

Weapon range is a fickle matter in any case, as - at least this is my interpretation - it does not only incorporate maximum range of the weapon but also the distance at which the wielder feels comfortable firing.

That's the only way to explain a difference in range between a bolt pistol and a boltgun, anyways, as they both fire one and the same kind of round - which is also rocket-propelled and as such would have quite a long range. Imho, "out of range" in the TT just means that the miniature doesn't want to fire yet 'coz he thinks he'd miss.

chromedog wrote:Weapon ranges are not a linear 1"= X' or Xm.
It's a sliding scale.
0-6" - probably on the order of up to 20m
0-12" - 50-80m or so.
0-18" - 150m or so (shuriken catapults are closest to submachineguns. This equates to max effective range on an smg).
0-24" - 3-400m (normall effective range for an assault rifle.)
0-36" - 800-1000m (not atypical ranges for sniper rifles)
0-48" - 1.5-2km (anti-tank missiles)
0-72" - 3-4km (based off the effective range of a 120mm tank main gun today - a Leman Russ, according to IA fluff has a 120mm gun).
Deathstrike - InterContinental Ballistic Missile (ICBM). Range is from many 10s of km up to several thousand.

I'm not trying to be mean, but this doesn't make sense. So the board is one length for the bullets but another length for the guys running along it? Since distance across the board is universal, if the board has any scale to it, that scale also has to be universal. And it doesn't really make a bunch of sense for infantry to run 20m at full speed one round, and then run 60m more while going the same speed in the next.

Truth is, distance in 40k is designed around a functional, entertaining game, and has very little basis in reality. As in, next to none.

I thought that i had read some where that all models aerage out to about 1/65th scale

1/56th is what I heard. And if Insaniak says it, it's probably correct.

gh05tdemon wrote:I thought that i had read some where that all models aerage out to about 1/65th scale

Vehicles like the rhinos are probably that scale, they're certainly a smaller scale than the marines. A 6' man in 1/65 scale is about 28mm high but that is for someone with human proportions, most 28mm figures are too wide and bulky. Because of this they are used with vehicles from bigger scale ranges like 1/56 or even 1/48 as 1/64 scale vehicles look too small. Your average 28mm figure (and many are actually 30mm or more) would not fit in a 1/64 scale vehicle.

Vehicles are definitly out of scale.

I figured out that a Rhino would have the foot print of a Landraider at true scale and Landraiders would be the size of Baneblades. Baneblades would be somewhere in the vicinity of 2' square.

Grey Templar wrote:Vehicles are definitly out of scale.

I figured out that a Rhino would have the foot print of a Landraider

Why? 10 Marines models fit into a Rhino's passenger compartment sitting. No one has to go in the drivers compartment.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Vehicles are definitly out of scale.

I figured out that a Rhino would have the foot print of a Landraider

Why? 10 Marines models fit into a Rhino's passenger compartment sitting. No one has to go in the drivers compartment.

they are supposed to sit on the side benches. there is standing room only on a current rhino

Grey Templar wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Vehicles are definitly out of scale.

I figured out that a Rhino would have the foot print of a Landraider

Why? 10 Marines models fit into a Rhino's passenger compartment sitting. No one has to go in the drivers compartment.

they are supposed to sit on the side benches. there is standing room only on a current rhino

Not to mention they would be bunched up to the point were disembarking would be more like an Astartes wrestling match.

In 40k, you've got 2 explanations for scale.

1) The game mechanics and modeling completely ignore scale. Distances are defined based on game balance, not an actual attempt to model what the weapon can actually do.

2) In the far future, the weapons of war tend to have a VERY short range. Like, one side of a room to another range. (12" guns have a range of like 36')

Jimsolo wrote:

chromedog wrote:Weapon ranges are not a linear 1"= X' or Xm.
It's a sliding scale.
0-6" - probably on the order of up to 20m
0-12" - 50-80m or so.
0-18" - 150m or so (shuriken catapults are closest to submachineguns. This equates to max effective range on an smg).
0-24" - 3-400m (normall effective range for an assault rifle.)
0-36" - 800-1000m (not atypical ranges for sniper rifles)
0-48" - 1.5-2km (anti-tank missiles)
0-72" - 3-4km (based off the effective range of a 120mm tank main gun today - a Leman Russ, according to IA fluff has a 120mm gun).
Deathstrike - InterContinental Ballistic Missile (ICBM). Range is from many 10s of km up to several thousand.

I'm not trying to be mean, but this doesn't make sense. So the board is one length for the bullets but another length for the guys running along it? Since distance across the board is universal, if the board has any scale to it, that scale also has to be universal. And it doesn't really make a bunch of sense for infantry to run 20m at full speed one round, and then run 60m more while going the same speed in the next.

At this point, you're reading way too much into it. No, it doesn't make much sense, if you're being entirely literal... neither does the fact that a souped-up vehicle moving balls-out fast as it goes can, at maximum, quadruple the speed of the dude out walking. Ranges in 40K are abstracted--it's basically a choice between that, and playing on football fields.

Trying to pin any kind of scale in 40k mins or weapon ranges is a lost cause. The models and the rules are designed to make a more or less balanced table top game, while at the same time ensuring plenty of sales for GW, not trying to be accurate to the fluff or "realism".

Grey Templar wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Vehicles are definitly out of scale.
I figured out that a Rhino would have the foot print of a Landraider

Why? 10 Marines models fit into a Rhino's passenger compartment sitting. No one has to go in the drivers compartment.

they are supposed to sit on the side benches. there is standing room only on a current rhino

The only problem with a rhino is the height of the passenger compartment. There would be enough room in there for 10 marines (4 sitting on the benches, 1 in each side doorwell, 4 standing in the middle) if the roof was about a quarter of an inch higher. As it is, Marines only fit in there bent nearly in half.

I guess none of you have seen the conversions of Marines sitting in a Rhino then. Well, they exist, and they fit.

DarknessEternal wrote:I guess none of you have seen the conversions of Marines sitting in a Rhino then. Well, they exist, and they fit.

I played around on google for quite awhile. I've seen this before, but can't find it now. Anyone else seen the the conversion(s) DE is talking about?

DarknessEternal wrote:I guess none of you have seen the conversions of Marines sitting in a Rhino then. Well, they exist, and they fit.

I'd like to see those conversions as well.

As for 40k's 'scale'... it's a combination of 28mm, 28mm 'heroic', 32mm, and 'whateverwethinklookscool'mm.

DarknessEternal wrote:I guess none of you have seen the conversions of Marines sitting in a Rhino then. Well, they exist, and they fit.

I've seen one that used to float around the internet, done with old metal landspeeder crew (with no backpacks, if I remember correctly) and the old rhino (which actually had a roomer cabin). I haven't seen anyone do it with the current kit... other than the attempt I made of it myself a few months back, and discarded because it just wasn't physically possible without lifting the cabin ceiling.

coolyo294 wrote:The Deathstrike is an ICBM.

Sometimes more like a SCUD missile!

Had a look for these conversions too and can't find them. You only have to look at the width of a marine from shoulder pad to shoulder pad to realise that they don't fit and the interior set up of the rhino doesn't help by having side doors. Five marines should be able to fit side by side on each of those little benches.

cadbren wrote:Five marines should be able to fit side by side on each of those little benches.

Not really. They need to all fit in the back. There's no particular reason that they all need to be able to sit down.

The benches aren't the problem. Again, it's just the height of the ceiling.

I have to disagree. The purpose of seating is so passengers can sit. It makes no sense to provide seating for half or less of the passengers. I doubt any current military vehicle has passengers standing as a matter of routine. If that were the case then no seats would be required.
A rhino also needs to have comparatively more room per marine than either a IG chimera or a modern apc because power armour makes the marines bulkier and less able to scrunch up, not to mention that they have huge power packs on their backs.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Scale_Model_Kits_for_40K
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/1/48_Scale_Sprues
hth