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Hey all. Simple question: If I take a unit of 5 Fire Dragons, and upgrade 1 to an Exarch, does it still meet the unit size? So, does an Exarch count as a Fire Dragon for size purposes?

Thanks!!

upgrading a fire dragon to an exarch does not increase the squad size, it just effectively "promotes" the soldier. So if you take 5 fire dragons and upgrade one to an exarch it is still a 5 man squad

Excellent.

Thanks!

Not that you'd want to, as Exarchs cost points, and you'll loose the squad as soon as they've fired.

I've yet to use mine, but Fire Dragons are a suicide squad, says every other Eldar player I've heard from.

The Exarch is still a Fire Dragon, so still counts. This is for max limits, too.

I've heard of an exarch being used to gain tank hunter or crack shot. No cover save for skimmers could be quite useful. Especially when you combine it with a firepike.

Firepike and Crack Shot are worthless on Fire Dragons.

Crack Shot is God-like on the Dark Reaper Tempest Launcher on the other hand . . .

AchillesFTW wrote:Firepike and Crack Shot are worthless on Fire Dragons.

Crack Shot is God-like on the Dark Reaper Tempest Launcher on the other hand . . .

I disagree about the Firepike and Crack Shot. Give me an exarch with a melta weapon from 9" away that ignores your Skimmers Moving Fast, your Smoke Launchers, your Turbo-Boosting, KFFs, and anything else that could hide a juicy vehicle.

You know what's worse than spending a few extra points on an Exarch and losing the entire squad in the next turn? Losing the entire squad anyway, but doing so without destroying their target due to cover saves.

Go for it. If an upgraded FD gets you 2 kills, it's worth the extra points.

Skinnereal wrote:Go for it. If an upgraded FD gets you 2 kills, it's worth the extra points.

I've played it both ways, and the exarch led squad seems to do just enough more to justify the extra points. It's still a pretty cheap unit in either case.

puma713 wrote:

AchillesFTW wrote:Firepike and Crack Shot are worthless on Fire Dragons.

Crack Shot is God-like on the Dark Reaper Tempest Launcher on the other hand . . .

I disagree about the Firepike and Crack Shot. Give me an exarch with a melta weapon from 9" away that ignores your Skimmers Moving Fast, your Smoke Launchers, your Turbo-Boosting, KFFs, and anything else that could hide a juicy vehicle.

You know what's worse than spending a few extra points on an Exarch and losing the entire squad in the next turn? Losing the entire squad anyway, but doing so without destroying their target due to cover saves.

You're increasing the price of that squad by 50% in order to make a single shot hit on 2+ instead of 3+ while ignoring cover saves. Granted that the squad gets Tank Hunters, but that's basically overkill when we're dealing with that many fusion guns.
Personally, instead of having two Exarchs like that, I'd take 8 Fire Dragons in squad 1 and 7 Fire Dragons in squad 2. The extra manpower will accomplish the same thing as the Exarch would most of the time, make the squad deadlier and more durable in assault, as well as perform significantly better when shooting Nobs or Termies.

Now, what would be interesting, though, is Crack Shot with Dragons Breath Flamer. Or without Crack Shot for that matter...

Deuseviscerator wrote:

Skinnereal wrote:Go for it. If an upgraded FD gets you 2 kills, it's worth the extra points.

I've played it both ways, and the exarch led squad seems to do just enough more to justify the extra points. It's still a pretty cheap unit in either case.

Agreed. I've played Eldar for years and I wouldn't leave home without a FD Exarch with all his goodies. Course, my lists were often unconventional. I had an opponent laugh at my Eldar 'ard Boyz list before we started playing a year ago. He conceded before Turn 5.

This thread is pretty derailed for YMDC but I'll chime in...

The cost of the Exarch is typically offset by wound allocation. A unit has to put 10 wounds on the unit of 5 before the exarch is forced to take a 2nd save which typically leads to the exarch staying alive when the squad would typically be annihilated. This means the opposing player now needs to decide if he wants to waste another round of shooing at one model or is force to shoot again to gain that KP in annihilation missions.

For the record I commonly take 4 Fire Dragons + Exarch w/ Dragons Breath flamer and Crackshot. It gives the unit more flexibility because there is a lot of situations that 5 fire Dragons don't have any optimal targets, but a TL Heavy Flamer fills that opposite role.