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Hello all,

just finished a small force of Pre-Heresy Salamanders with a Vulkan conversion and was wondering about the Drop Site Massacre (I have only read 5 or so of the Heresy books and I just scoured Lexicanum for information) more specifically;

1. Who were the Salamanders engaged with primarily?

2. Did the Traitor Legions already have chaos armor or was their armor still general-issue?

3. How did Vulkan get away from the battle?

4. Did Vulkan only take Fire Drakes into the battle?

5. Are the Fire Drakes only terminators? If so... this is embarrassing haha.

Ill post pictures of my troop sometime later, I'm exciting to see what you all think of them. But for now any help answering my questions would be greatly appreciated!

The Traitors were still wearing general issue PA at the time of the Dropsite Massacre.

Salamanders were fighting the original 4 Traitor Legions I believe were

Sons of Horus(Black Legion), World Eaters, Emperor's Children, and maybe the Iron Warriors? Their Armour hadn't been corrupted save for the uppermost Captains and Primarchs. Vulkan I believe was never part of it, or escaped just like Corax did.

Thats all I really know.

We don't know how Vulkan got away. In fact, he was believed to have been killed at the dropsite massacre. We, the omniscient reader, know he wasn't, but in universe, they think he's dead.

Maybe when they get around to having him show back up, it'll explain his escape.

Vulkan was down there, but I don't think it's ever been said how he escaped. I believe he had taken a sizable portion of his legion with him too because the Salamanders are reported to have suffered grave losses just as the Raven Guard did.

As far as we know Vulkan didn't get away. In one of the short stories in Age of Darkness, there is a flashback by one of the Salamanders in which he saw Vulkan engulfed by an explosion or something like that. They think he is dead, as far as we know.

Majority of the legion was there at the massacre.

The majority of the Legion was there, the majority of the legion was killed, this is why there really aren't Salamander sucessor chapters.

Campbell1004 wrote:Hello all,

just finished a small force of Pre-Heresy Salamanders with a Vulkan conversion and was wondering about the Drop Site Massacre (I have only read 5 or so of the Heresy books and I just scoured Lexicanum for information) more specifically;

1. Who were the Salamanders engaged with primarily?

Since their entire Legion was present, spread across the field of battle, they faced all four enemies, the World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Sons of Horus, and Death Guard. On their retreat they would have faced the Iron Warriors, who set up their defenses across their line.

2. Did the Traitor Legions already have chaos armor or was their armor still general-issue?

The Sons of Horus used the emblems of the Lodges, which were Chaos symbols. The Emperor's Children had decorated their armour with the skin and flesh of the mortals aboard their ships by this point. Their armour remained relatively unchanged.

3. How did Vulkan get away from the battle?

If he got away, it would have been by Thunderhawk or Stormbird.

4. Did Vulkan only take Fire Drakes into the battle?

Do you mean the huge lizards? If so, then not likely.

5. Are the Fire Drakes only terminators? If so... this is embarrassing haha.

The Salamanders First Company was called the Fire Drakes, after the huge lizards that inhabited Nocturne, their homeworld. They wore Terminator armour.

Ill post pictures of my troop sometime later, I'm exciting to see what you all think of them. But for now any help answering my questions would be greatly appreciated!

Hope that helps and looking forward to it.

They also engaged some of the Night Lords at least once; Talos mentions killing them during either 'Soul Hunter' or 'Blood Reaver'.

The Fire Drakes of old usually went into battle in Terminator armor, if I remember correctly the Fire Drakes were in their terminator armor during this battle. Even if they didn't wear their terminator armor, by the time a Salamander becomes a Fire Drake his armor is no longer normal Power Armor, it would be identicle to Artificers Armor.

1. Who were the Salamanders engaged with primarily?

The four present legio's. Some material mentions the IH as a spearhead and RG and sallies as flanking so its possible to have a "primary" opponent firstly. Should have changed soon and the Legio's at the bechhead showed their colors then. Who knows who engaged whom
more than anyone else?
Salamnders had no specific "preferred enemy" amongst the legions.

2. Did the Traitor Legions already have chaos armor or was their armor still general-issue?

Armor of the 4 "known" traitors was repainted, re-decorated and some of the "backup" force who backstabbed them may have kept the heraldry clean of any sign of chaos. PA seems to be compatible through the ages tough.

3. How did Vulkan get away from the battle?

unknown yet.

4. Did Vulkan only take Fire Drakes into the battle?

The Legion was present.

5. Are the Fire Drakes only terminators?

Maybe. But dreads could be part of the firedrakes too.

GW also keeps changing who was and was not at the Dropsite Massacre, from a Traitor standpoint...

There is some ancillary evidence that Vulkan survived. One source claims that Vulkan was one of the opponents of the Codex, but that would require him to have been active after the Dropsite Massacre. If he did survive, it has never been revealed how.

Pretty sure he had more than just First Company with him, and if other Legions are anything to go by then the First Company (who I am not certain were calling themselves the Firedrakes at this point) would be in a mix of armor types.

Hope that helps, and I would really like to see your work when it's all done! I play Salamanders too, and it is always nice to see someone else's take on things. I look forward to seeing this Vulkan conversion.

There hasn't been a Salamander based HH novel yet so we don't know if the Firedrakes were around as Firedrakes or just the first company etc. The Firedrakes in modern canon are NOT just terminators, they are veterans who will don PA or TDA as the occasion deems fit.

The book Fulgrim has the Emperor's Children devoting themselves openly to Slaanesh after the massacre at Isstvan III. By the time they deploy to Isstvan V the noise marines have been created plus Fabius Bile has altered the rest of the legion in strange ways too. The Emperor's Children that fought at the drop site massacre would have looked pretty much like chaos marines.

Jimsolo wrote:There is some ancillary evidence that Vulkan survived. One source claims that Vulkan was one of the opponents of the Codex, but that would require him to have been active after the Dropsite Massacre. If he did survive, it has never been revealed how.

He also abandoned his chapter after Leman Russ did, using Russ as his example to follow. This is when he gave out the "find my stuff" quest.

The Word Bearers also had units that were significantly altered. Guilliman apparently knew the Vulkan would oppose the Codex, as he had war games fighting against the Salamanders.

Lobukia wrote:The Word Bearers also had units that were significantly altered. Guilliman apparently knew the Vulkan would oppose the Codex, as he had war games fighting against the Salamanders.

This, a small number of the Word Bearers Legion had been corrupted to the point of wearing 'Chaos Armor'. Not really armor at all, but part of their 'being'.

Wow, thanks so much for the help guys! Ill be sure to get the pictures up tomorrow (the last day I am home before going off to college).

Lobukia wrote:The Word Bearers also had units that were significantly altered. Guilliman apparently knew the Vulkan would oppose the Codex, as he had war games fighting against the Salamanders.

Ultramarines practiced war games against any other legion because Guilliman didn't know at the time who were loyalists and who wre traitors and decided to be prepared in case they were forced to engage any foe, no matter who.

Uhlan wrote:

Lobukia wrote:The Word Bearers also had units that were significantly altered. Guilliman apparently knew the Vulkan would oppose the Codex, as he had war games fighting against the Salamanders.

This, a small number of the Word Bearers Legion had been corrupted to the point of wearing 'Chaos Armor'. Not really armor at all, but part of their 'being'.

About 30, called the Gal Vorbak. They were Possessed by Daemons.

1 The Salamanders fought on the left flank of the Iron Hands with the Raven Guard on the right. When the dropsite massacre began, Corax and Vulkan argued as to what to do. Corax favoured fleeing the field and regrouping, Vulkan refused and as such the Salamanders were gradually pushed into smaller pockets of resistance (last stands) and slaughtered by both the initial 4 traitor legions and the reinforcing 4. In particular the World Eaters are believed to have destroyed the last Salamander pocket with charge and close combat assault and the Iron Warriors pulverised others with their firepower.

2 The traitor legions primarily wore the latest plate armor as Horus had diverted the most upto date equipment to the legions who were going to join with him.

3 Vulkan was seen getting engulfed by a huge explosion by a Salamander in Age of Darkness and possibly the same explosion by Ferrus Manus in Fulgrim. If it was the same explosion Ferrus Manus saw then Vulkan could well still be alive as in Fulgrim Ferrus also saw Corax getting shot down at the same time and Corax is still very much alive. His status is offically Unknown.

4 The entire Salamanders legion was present on Istvaan save for few marines seperated on other missions or who may have been ship based and later escaped.

5 Not sure on the Fire Drakes.

Good luck on your project. The Salamanders are interesting in that if Vulkan was killed, how was the legion rebuilt from next to no survivors. Least the Raven Guard escaped with a few thousand marines.

Vulkan definitely wasn't killed at Istvaan V unless they want to do a huge retcon of the Salamanders fluff with the HH books.

Not only was he opposed to the Codex Astartes, and he also left his legion in the manner that Russ left the Space Wolves. He gave his legion a fetch quest, with 9 relics scattered around the galaxy, and said he would return when they were all found. Both of these points require him to be alive and kicking after the battle of Terra.

Also, since the entire legion of Salamanders was present on Istvaan V, it stands to reson that at lease some got off world after the massacre, as the legion was slowly rebuilt from the survivors and had too few to take part in the defense of Terra.

While Vulkan was seen to be hit by a large explosion, engulfing him in flames, it's hardly the frst time a primarch has taken a huge blow or done something that should have killed them and walked away in the HH novels. For example, in the same book, Fulgrim strangles an Avatar.

Salamanders and Tyranids, Loki? You ever see that episode of Family Guy where the robot assistant is trying to decide between loving Peter the boss and Peter the guy he was insulting? And his head explodes? That's happening to me right now...

AchillesFTW wrote:Salamanders were fighting the original 4 Traitor Legions I believe were

Sons of Horus(Black Legion), World Eaters, Emperor's Children, and maybe the Iron Warriors? Their Armour hadn't been corrupted save for the uppermost Captains and Primarchs. Vulkan I believe was never part of it, or escaped just like Corax did.

Thats all I really know.

The four original Traitor Legions were the Luna Wolves, World Eaters, Emperor's Children and Death Guard. The Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Alpha Legion and Word Bearers were supposed to be the second wave on Istvaan V, but turned traitor (hence the "Massacre).

Jimsolo wrote:Salamanders and Tyranids, Loki? You ever see that episode of Family Guy where the robot assistant is trying to decide between loving Peter the boss and Peter the guy he was insulting? And his head explodes? That's happening to me right now...

I've always felt that if you're going to have a Space Marine army, you should have a non-Space Marine army to compensate. I don't see the point in owning multiple Space Marine armies - they're all basically the same anyway. And if I'm going to get a non-power armoured army to compensate, I might as well get something as far as possible from them.

And if I'm going to get Space Marines, I might as well get the chapter that acts like the heroes of the Imperium that they're made out to be.

-Loki- wrote:

Jimsolo wrote:Salamanders and Tyranids, Loki? You ever see that episode of Family Guy where the robot assistant is trying to decide between loving Peter the boss and Peter the guy he was insulting? And his head explodes? That's happening to me right now...

I've always felt that if you're going to have a Space Marine army, you should have a non-Space Marine army to compensate. I don't see the point in owning multiple Space Marine armies - they're all basically the same anyway. And if I'm going to get a non-power armoured army to compensate, I might as well get something as far as possible from them.

And if I'm going to get Space Marines, I might as well get the chapter that acts like the heroes of the Imperium that they're made out to be.

All your clothes are the same colour aren't they.

-Loki- wrote:

Jimsolo wrote:Salamanders and Tyranids, Loki? You ever see that episode of Family Guy where the robot assistant is trying to decide between loving Peter the boss and Peter the guy he was insulting? And his head explodes? That's happening to me right now...

I've always felt that if you're going to have a Space Marine army, you should have a non-Space Marine army to compensate. I don't see the point in owning multiple Space Marine armies - they're all basically the same anyway. And if I'm going to get a non-power armoured army to compensate, I might as well get something as far as possible from them.

And if I'm going to get Space Marines, I might as well get the chapter that acts like the heroes of the Imperium that they're made out to be.

I feel the same. To compensate for using Space Wolves for some years I began collecting the exact human opposite: IG. Now, 14 years after I began collectig Guard my collection is a little bit over the plan...

It is belived that Vulkan was killed by everyone except his own Legion, who most certaintly saw him afterwards.


We know it and the Salamaders know it. everyone else thinks he was killed.

the same deal for Corax.


How he escaped is unknown. probably like the rest of his legion did.

Fire Drakes are pretty much just Wolf Guard these days...

Anyway, I'll just echo the rest here:

1. Son's of Horus, Emperors Children, World Eaters, Deathguard. Iron Warriors on the retreat most likely.

2. They just started pimping their armor.

3. No one knows.

4. Nope.

5. Most likely in this battle yes. At all times? Not sure, TDA was a lot rarer during the Heresy.