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Hey guys, i've been trying to mull something over in my head and i figured if i asked other people id provably figure this out quicker.

i want to make my devilfish legitimately float. No more flying stands. i don't know how practical or even possible this would be for games but if nothing else it would look freaking epic.

So, i thought of a way to try to do this and i have two ideas.

The first is to run two currents, 1 through a base and one through the base of the hull. both currents run in the same direction and they should repel right? This might require a really huge current i'm not sure. ( I'm really bad at e/m, not good for an engineering major )

The other was to place a large magnet in the center of the devilfish north facing down and south facing down magnets all along the perimeter of the ship but not as strong as the middle one. Then place all south facing up magnets on a base so that while the outside is repulsed the middle attracts and hopefully keeps it in a state of equilibrium. Again for those out there who are good with magnetism, please help!

Thanks guys.

Well if you're using magnets, you'll have to get them lined up very precisely, and I mean freaking precisely, and even then, a slight nudge will upset the balance, causing it to fly off, possibly damaging it and other models.

Well, i found this on wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_levitation

basically, static magnets cant be used for levitation for the reasons you just mentioned.

hmmmm, things aren't really looking good for my project.

Making your devilfish Levitate in a static display would be possible making it levitate in a stable manner for gaming would be more trouble some. So are we talking gaming or display?

Well, preferably gaming cause it would be just too cool to bring out my tau cadre and the vehicles are actually flying, but if it could be done in display only i think i would still do that.

A couple of Yttrium-Cobalt ceramic superconducting magnets and a small amount of liquid nitrogen might help.

These are the 'normal' floating, spinning type used in those demonstrations.

I have a pair of them (but they were made as part of a friend's physics thesis) - I have no idea where you could buy them.

Ahh, I remember we used to discuss this way back when, either on Librarium or 40ko... I believe we even had a couple physics profs/grads chime in on the topic, I believe the consensus was that it couldn't be done outside of a static display. There was one guy who tried it to some success by spinning the floating object in the center, but once the rotation slowed down to a certain point the levitating object was flung off to the side rather violently, and moving it was impossible without holding onto the floating piece and rebalancing/rotating it again.

Basically, there really is no way to do this without some sort of mechanical constraint (say wire constricting the movement of the object above the magnet, which would defeat the purpose). While you are correct that you can 'float' something via magnetism, it only works until a path of lesser resistance is found (I.E. move to the side and out of the magnetic field).

Just out of interest, if you were to create a "ring" of magnets with their north pole facing upwards on the base, and then placed a single magnet with it's north pole facing down on the skimmer itself, would it be possible to then float the model in the middle of this ring of magnets?

Hope that made sense...

I suppose it that make sense, but only in the sense if the floating magnet has no mass on top. If it has the mass of the Devilfish above it, it could be easily inbalanced, which would again, cause if to flip/skew/fly away.

This just really isn't viable for a gaming piece, and would be immensely difficult for even a static piece, I'm afraid to say.

An easier way to achieve a cool effect is to have small struts disguised as something else. For example, it could be smashing through some foliage, and vines made to look like they're being pulled by the skimmer could actually be supporting it. I've had an idea in my head for a while that I want to model a skimmer knocking the top off of a ruined building as it flies over it.

Building on the ring idea, would it work if you used the same ring on the base as in my previous example, but placed a similar ring of magnets on the actual skimmer model with their north sides facing downwards. This would give you the repulsion you need

Then if you took 2 stronger magnets and placed one on the skimmer, (south pole facing down) and one on the base (North pole facing up) in the center of each ring so they were attracted to each other, and this would help keep the model in place.
You would probably have to be very precise with your magnet placement, and find the balancing point for the model, but could this work?

Now keep in mind that i haven't tried this and have nothing to base this on, i'm just trying to figure out a way to make it work.

It seems like a lot of precision work, but the end result would definitely bring a lot of wow factor to an army. I mean, your models would be FREAKIN' LEVITATING!

Why not just tie it down with some fishing line. It is practically invisible. Not as cool but possible.

Black Rabbit, that's was my original idea too. It made more sense when you said it. The problem is i think that it would slip off very easily. i know that the middle one is supposed to be like an anchor point but i think even if you had everything perfectly lined up it would still fly off as soon as you touched it. that being said if you pull it off I'd absolutely love to see it, because it would be so cool.

AnotherNoob wrote:Why not just tie it down with some fishing line. It is practically invisible. Not as cool but possible.

It'd still fall to the side, it just wouldn't go as far. You'd need a stiff support to keep it in place and then, again, you're defeating the purpose (although I think it would technically reduce the downward force of the model on its supports, so as long as they were still stiff enough to keep it from flying to the side they might be able to be made thinner than would actually support the full weight of the model). I think even for that parenthetical supposition you'd be putting in way too much work for way too little gain.

bleedge wrote:Well, i found this on wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_levitation

basically, static magnets cant be used for levitation for the reasons you just mentioned.

hmmmm, things aren't really looking good for my project.

+5 points for the picture of the mag-levitating frog on the wikipedia page.

I agree on using fishing line. Use 3 or 4 lines evenly spread, two properly aligned magnets, and viola!! Floating devilfish.

I like the idea as a showcase model however it is not quite right for a viable gaming piece... After the initial showoff of the model it will become more of a nuisance to play with then a worthwhile piece...

Your probably better off making a diorama model with the side doors open to the base to show it disembarking... House metal pins hidden within the door holding it off the ground rather then a flying base, just a suggestion and much more sturdy as a gaming piece...

There are plastic kits that already do this. They have poweful magnets in each and 3 or 4 fine threads, like fishing line, run from the base to the tips of the model to stop it falling to the side. Which is what will happen, it'll be almost impossible to balance one magnet on top of the other without some attachment.

black-rabbit wrote:

It seems like a lot of precision work, but the end result would definitely bring a lot of wow factor to an army. I mean, your models would be FREAKIN' LEVITATING!

I dont think you realize just how precise we're talking about here....

Howard A Treesong wrote:There are plastic kits that already do this. They have poweful magnets in each and 3 or 4 fine threads, like fishing line, run from the base to the tips of the model to stop it falling to the side. Which is what will happen, it'll be almost impossible to balance one magnet on top of the other without some attachment.

This is really the only way to do unpowered levitation. Just give up on the balance and hold it with fishing line.

StarHunter25 wrote:I agree on using fishing line. Use 3 or 4 lines evenly spread, two properly aligned magnets, and viola!! Floating devilfish.

I think you meant voila as viola in french means raped as in he raped her (il la viola).

The only solution I see is to intentionally overbalance t he top, so that the excessive weight cancels out all other fiddliness of the model. Then, you need an up-ward force around the outside of the model of sufficient strength to keep that weight up, and a single down-ward force in the middle of the model to anchor it to the spot, but without yanking it down. You are dealing with such a fiddly small margin of error to get this right.... It just ain't happening mate.

youd be having to use a whole combination of magnets and magnetic metals to make this trick work.... and the result model might not exactly be worth it.

I'm no physics buff either but I could imagine using some plain old magnets and just tether the devilfish to a base at three different points (at least) with some fishing line. Not as elegant as free floating but could be pretty stable.

In a diaronma it is possible to use the magnets but you would need multiple high strength magnets with oppisite polarities e ery other one to keep a revolving balance between a compass rose stly set up. . . Hmmm ideas. . . . Oh the ideas. . .

Well we are getting closer to levitating models, although the miniatures themselves would be too heavy to lift.

Check this out for how to get stabilized levitation. Not usable for miniatures yet though.

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp?p=diamagnetic-levitation