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I know everyone's gone pre-heresy marines lately, so here's a question:

How best to portray Pre-Fall Eldar using the Dark Eldar codex. By PreFall i mean centuries or millenia Pre-Fall, not days/weeks PreFall (the DE codex already covers that). I'm planning a Pre-Fall Eldar army

Fluff and modelling suggestions welcome, but especially any scraps of pre-fall Eldar fluff people have beyond the eldar and dark eldar codexes, the rulebook fluff and Lexicanum Reminders of obscure stuff from the codexes or previous editions therof also welcome

The problem with pre fall eldar is that nothing changed with them. They were the same armor, color, Etc.
if anything maybe unhelmeted them and file off all of the Spirit stones. The eldar never used them before the creation of Slaanesh, They were created after to provent slaanesh claiming the spirits of the dead eldar.

Eternalhero1983 wrote:The problem with pre fall eldar is that nothing changed with them. They were the same armor, color, Etc.
if anything maybe unhelmeted them and file off all of the Spirit stones. The eldar never used them before the creation of Slaanesh, They were created after to provent slaanesh claiming the spirits of the dead eldar.

Not exactly. The current craftworld eldar are a far cry for the original ones, as they repress and stratify everything to supress their urges. I think the current aspects etc might be post-fall, but i'm still doing the research on this stuff

I also was suggesting building it with the Dark Eldar codex (not the Eldar one), as a Noble house similar to those that ruled Commoragh pre-Vect, but a smidge less hedonistic and a bit more aristocratic. Filing spirit stones off regular eldar wouldn't really cut it.

The wyche cults used to be eldar pleasure cults, so you could use wyches. Since Arhra was a phoenix lord, and could have founded the incubi sect, you could use Drazhar, but rename him as the dark father/Arhra. All haemonculus cults I don't think were around back then, so they are a no-go. Bloodbrides could be used as the former higher ranking members of the pleasure cults.

You could use the DE rules but go for a more 'wild abandon' look.

Maybe mix the regular eldar bits with Wood Elf bits and use them with DE rules?

The whole bondage/leather look is very post-fall. I could imagine pleasure cults being much more like Wardancers...

I have the feeling on one reads the OP.

He wants pre Fall Eldar, not the corrupted Nearly-Dark Eldar.

As such, I think due to the scarcity of the fluff (and by scarcity I mean there's nothing on how the real Eldar behaved, what they wore etc) it's impossible to recreate the pre Fall Eldar with any certainty.

Hmmm.

Some good ideas, but the scarcity of the fluff doesn't help, it's true..

I could use raiders done out as pleasure barges (which is what they were originally), less spiky and gothic, with a heradlic device in place of the sigils.

Maybe work in some high elf/wood elf feel and bitz, after all they would still be an arrogant, personal fulfillment seeking bunch of elitists Perhaps go for a light colour scheme, and a less spiky look. I like the race fluff a good deal, and a fair few of the Dark Eldar units could still be used, with a tweak or two.

Wych-wardancers and harlequins are fine
Warriors would still be fine with a slight makeover
Incubi could be the Leaderguard to a Lord
The planes would work fine
Beastmasters ditto
The dark eldar vehicles and bikes would work, as would hellions, with a little adjust.

The Coven stuff, not so much.

If anyone has any fluff on the eldar before the fall, except that they partied so hard it ripped a whole in the universe and birthed a God (Eldar could really PARTY ) i'd be very interested to hear it.

Same as ordinary Craftworld Eldar - only they were not suck jerks then...

They were even bigger jerks than the Craftowrld Eldar are - after all, Craftworld Eldar restrain themselves when it comes to emotion etc. Pre Fall Eldar had no such restraints.

I have always seen them as a cross between the Eldar and Dark Eldar. The newer Dark Eldar models that are a little less spiky is what i envisioned, but add in Eldar tanks and weapons.

I imagine the pre-fall military looked similar to the Current Eldar gear, at least somewhat, as their tech is pretty much static.

I'm more interested in a heavily armed and overly-entitled noble house from pre-fall times. I will likely despiky them a little, if i follow through with this idea.

Is there any fluff about the time before the pleasure cults got their hooks into the society? Eldar fluff isn't something i've really dug into before

I think that pre-fall Eldar would be like Dark Eldar, but without all the spikiness. I think you would be better off using DE, but with heavy conversions.

For Example I would use Howling Banshees as wyches, but with Wych heads. If you pay attention to fluff, most pre-Fall Eldar were not as badly fallen as current DE.

I am using DE

I have both codexes, but the regular Eldar stuff would fit better for pre-fall eldar military than what i have in mind.I

I'm mostly looking for ideas on making them different from current DE (less spikes, obviously...) and on reimagining/converting units that don't fit.

The Coven stuff doesn't fit too well with the concept, so i'm collecting them as a seperate entity.

Any fluff on pre-fall Eldar culture people have is welcome also, but i know it's near non-existent..


The banshee/whych conversion, or modified Wood Elf wardancers, would be interesting.

I will likely have a ton of harlequins, as they haven't changed any.

Actually, I suppose the important thing about the military look is that everything would still have been made from wraithbone?

So, the look of the weapons/vehicles should actually be much more Eldar than Dark Eldar.

This might seem a bit pedantic, but the pre-fall eldar had no military.

It is repeatedly sourced that the "Stars lived and died at our command". That because their technology did ALL the work for them, they could devote their lives to more esoteric, and eventually hedonistic pursuits. I would imagine an eldar would never risk their own flesh, or waste their time on something as trivial as war, if they had the technology to fight it for them. I would imagine it to be far more likely that legions of Wraithguard-like androids, and giant Wraithlord type walkers fought alongside AI controlled star fighters and falcons commanded by either a hypersentient AI, or a single eldar in impervious armour or within some sort of command walker, who happened to have a peculiar addiction to bloodlust that day.

Certainly no aspects, those were created post fall as a way to deal with rage. No harlequins, they were created by the Laughing God just after the fall as a way to save eldar from slaanesh. No guardians, as regular eldar would not risk their lives in real battle, perhaps as sport, or as spectators aboard a hovercraft with over the top weaponry, or perhaps like the spyrers from necromunda, but not in the paper machee armour they wear now.

In the DE codex it says that the venoms are the size of ancient eldar "sky charriots"

The forthcoming Imperial Amour Book, The Doom of Mymeara might turn out to be useful to you. Eldar Corsairs will supposedly be presented as a hybrid of Craftworld and Dark Eldar, which might give you some ideas on how Eldar who have not fallen to Chaos but not embraced the Paths look and act.

Otherwise, as other posters have said, the fluff presents the Eldar from before the Fall as godlike in power, and thus difficult to represent on the tabletop. The idea of non-corrupt (or not wholly-corrupt) Eldar of the 41st (or 31st) millennium rejecting the Craftworlds to live in the manner of their predecessors wouldn't an uninteresting one, however.

Thanks, i'll give it a look

I might synthesize a bit between eldar and dark eldar kits, maybe throwing in a bit of High Elf stuff here and there..