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Ok so my friend has wolves and every list I throw at him he punches through it like butter.

He usually has grimmer (now with a devastator squad to gain the relentless rule) and has 2 dreadnoughts (one venerable with plasma cannon, 1 normal with multi-melta, both in drop pods), a predator with lascannon sponsors all round all vehicles have extra armour. I think he maybe packing his lists full of devastators in the future.

We play 2000pts.

so its back to the drawing bored.

Any help is appreciated to the highest delight.

Cheers to all comments.

EDIT: He hates the razor rush tactic.

All I can think of off the top of my head is to get it all tied down in combat.

If its all 'shooty', beat it to pulp. That's how my ork mate plays.

Well first of all, what do you play?

Sorry I play chaos space marines.

Nids the problem is like when I told you today, if you have made a bored he will switch round some pices/add some pices for him to gain cover, and he knows that im a close quarters army (meaning i have a lot of rapid fire weapons and good in a combat).

Edit: he adds terrain for both sides but I don't need it.

I've always done decently against Space Wolves with Thousand Sons in Rhinos with Wind of Chaos to shred anything they can pile out of a rhino and rapid fire. I use deep striking Terminators with combi-meltas for things like that Predator and Devastators. Obliterators to get them out of their transports. Against non-horde armies Thousand Sons' 4+ invulnerable makes them very resilient.

I will always fondly remember a Wolf Lord and Terminator bodyguard dropping next to me in a drop pod and dying in one turn to warptime wind of chaos from a Sorceror Lord, Daemon Prince and two winds of chaos from Thousand Sons squads.

Nitros14 wrote:I've always done decently against Space Wolves with Thousand Sons in Rhinos with Wind of Chaos to shred anything they can pile out of a rhino and rapid fire. I use deep striking Terminators with combi-meltas for things like that Predator and Devastators. Obliterators to get them out of their transports. Against non-horde armies Thousand Sons' 4+ invulnerable makes them very resilient.

I will always fondly remember a Wolf Lord and Terminator bodyguard dropping next to me in a drop pod and dying in one turn to warptime wind of chaos from a Sorceror Lord, Daemon Prince and two winds of chaos from Thousand Sons squads.

Wow you have thousand sons.... your brave (since dakka told me the sons were bad)

Might go for that but should I swap a predator for a defiler or a vindicator? (Im exploring on what to put on my army for a tournament in October so far im putting in 2 preds with heavy bolter side sponsors and a lascannon turret complete with extra armour and a land raider with extra armour).

I'd have all lascannons on one Pred. send it and the land raider fowards together then do whatever you want, but have it covered by the preds.

Hmm...I see the tactic but that would be a hell knows how many points for the pred.

I usually have Abadon with 4 terminators all champions with pairs of lightning claws in the land raider, is that good?

Do not just rush into melee with all of his hunters unless you've spanked it with range for a turn or two.

Counter-attack, ccw+bp, wolf banner, power fist on wolf guard, 2 plasmaguns/2 meltaguns, rhino/lasplas razor.

nasty nasty nasty nasty units in shooting AND cc.

long fangs are his weakness and strength. whichever fang squad has logan in it, HAMMER it with whatever anti-infantry anything you have until it's down to 1-2 wolves and beefnar, then move on to the next one.

Some way to null psy powers is good too, wolf priests are a strong hq along with beefnar, with either hurricane or lightning.

As always, a vindicator or defiler for their large blasts are awesome. Pop something, lay down the pie. One, maybe two of these will do, and they also work as fire magnets from the rest of your force.

BronzeJon wrote:Do not just rush into melee with all of his hunters unless you've spanked it with range for a turn or two.

Counter-attack, ccw+bp, wolf banner, power fist on wolf guard, 2 plasmaguns/2 meltaguns, rhino/lasplas razor.

nasty nasty nasty nasty units in shooting AND cc.

long fangs are his weakness and strength. whichever fang squad has logan in it, HAMMER it with whatever anti-infantry anything you have until it's down to 1-2 wolves and beefnar, then move on to the next one.

Some way to null psy powers is good too, wolf priests are a strong hq along with beefnar, with either hurricane or lightning.

As always, a vindicator or defiler for their large blasts are awesome. Pop something, lay down the pie. One, maybe two of these will do, and they also work as fire magnets from the rest of your force.

Thanks for the advice but chaos don't have anything to nullify psy powers.

So what shall I go for a battlecannon (defiler) or a demolisher cannon (vindicator) (bearing in mind he has the drop pod dreadnoughts).

Take off Something that you don't use much
Problem solved

Then add Lascannons, Lascannons, Lascannons!

IHateNids wrote:Take off Something that you don't use much
Problem solved

How is that problem solved, I know im taking off a pred and im replacing it with a deffy or a windicator but don't know which?

Any help?

Put which ever one you want in, im just gonna drop lots' o lascannons on it

RatWolf wrote:Put which ever one you want in, im just gonna drop lots' o lascannons on it

ah so Mr.Wolf we meet again...

not when I ORDNANCE IT!!!!

Ordenance what? i have 3 things that have Lascannons ....

Something is gonna give

Like i told you, you problem last game was you ploughed Abbadon and his termies headfirst into Logan, despite the fact he had Grey Hunters with Rune Priest and Blood Claws with Wolf Priest on BOTH flanks, so, once he surviived the initial charge, they closed in and tore you to pieces ...

I think before long this'll turn into a 2000 pts of lascannons, terminators and vehicles vs 2000pts of plasma cannons and dreadnoughts

I think my list is slowly growing into something tournement worthy, i changed one little thing the other night, but its gonna make a huge difference

RatWolf wrote:Ordenance what? i have 3 things that have Lascannons ....

Something is gonna give

Like i told you, you problem last game was you ploughed Abbadon and his termies headfirst into Logan, despite the fact he had Grey Hunters with Rune Priest and Blood Claws with Wolf Priest on BOTH flanks, so, once he surviived the initial charge, they closed in and tore you to pieces ...

Ok well lets look at the battle:

Well i knew those relentless devastators are going to be a danger where ever they are so I have to get rid of them quickly so why not, if I had better rolling he would have been dead then I would have consolidated towards/away from the fangs unit but because of dice rolling you saved the day.

Not putting it all on the dice but the tactic was good in the mind.

EDIT: do the dakkanaughts I "plowed" in Abadon with 4 termies all equipped with pairs of lightning claws and champion upgrades (IMHO good compensation if Abadon fails).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IHateNids wrote:I think before long this'll turn into a 2000 pts of lascannons, terminators and vehicles vs 2000pts of plasma cannons and dreadnoughts

Na not really but I still need help with choosing a windi or a deffy, any help please?

You could consolidate as far away from the combat as you wanted, point is, you ploughed yourself right into the middle of my gunlines, so, the maximum 6" consolidation was NOT going to save you if i dropped my 3 plasmas, Dreadnoughts and Hunter and Claws onto you, (iwouldnt drop all of them onto you but....)

In my opinion deffy but thats just me.

Bear i mind, i have 1 Terminator, so short range AP2 isnt really gonna make a difference

IHateNids wrote:In my opinion deffy but thats just me.

Yeah I can see two points in this:

1)Deffy is awesome

2)the battle canon means that I can keep him at the back and not fear for the destruction of him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So any other tactics can dakkanaughts tell me for my list.

And if need be, the Deffy can assault for S10 hits ...

RatWolf wrote:And if need be, the Deffy can assault for S10 hits ...

Complemented by fleet...

Defillers have fleet?

Thats true i suppose

Against the wolves, you should drop abaddon, the 4 termies with claws and the land raider.

Kharn would eat SW in CC.

Chosen (5) with 3 melta & 2 flamers would do you some good, but it depends if you can get them in range.

Zerkers would probably dispose of normal squads quite easily.

PM squads with 2 plasmagun could hold some positions for you and still shoot at 24".


Overall, you want the building and cover to protect yourself and gain cover from all his long range firepower.

You could also use a chaos sorcerer with lash of submission to move his long fangs around, and get them in your firing or assault range.... if you use two sorcerers, you could potentially get a squad 4D6 toward any direction want...

gorium wrote:Against the wolves, you should drop abaddon, the 4 termies with claws and the land raider.

KHARN!!!! would eat SW in CC.

Chosen (5) with 3 melta & 2 flamers would do you some good, but it depends if you can get them in range.

Zerkers would probably dispose of normal squads quite easily.

PM squads with 2 plasmagun could hold some positions for you and still shoot at 24".


Overall, you want the building and cover to protect yourself and gain cover from all his long range firepower.

You could also use a chaos sorcerer with lash of submission to move his long fangs around, and get them in your firing or assault range.... if you use two sorcerers, you could potentially get a squad 4D6 toward any direction want...

EDIT: fixed it for you

how about just hiding and drawing them in, then fire a load of stuff that can make em run

Wow you have thousand sons.... your brave (since dakka told me the sons were bad)

I would say they're specialized and expensive and don't pull their weight against horde armies. As long as you have them in Rhinos they do fine against armies with lots of power armour and AP 2-3 weapons since they have a 4+ invulnerable. Especially if you have lash of submisison to move things out of cover to be rapid fired by Inferno Bolters and clumped up for wind of chaos.