Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

eHaley
Squire
Stormclad [bonded]
Lancer

Minimum Precursor Knight unit with Unit Attachment
Stormblades with 3 Stormgunners

Black 13th
eEiryss

I would start by trying to squeeze in the Stormblade UA. In order to do that I would drop eEiryss and 2 of the gunners giving you 5 points. 3 of those points go to the UA, the other 2 will get you Gorman. Gorman can be used around eHaley or along with the Black 13th.

I don't get much use of the assault order with the stormblades in this list.

I would love to fit in gorman for the b13th.

I suppose I could use the smoke for cover for eHaley.

The gunners are pretty critical in this list however.

imweasel wrote:I don't get much use of the assault order with the stormblades in this list.

I would love to fit in gorman for the b13th.

I suppose I could use the smoke for cover for eHaley.

The gunners are pretty critical in this list however.

Why are the RAT 5, RNG 10 Gunners critical? Explain how this list is supposed to work for me.

Certainly.

The PK's form a wall in front of the SB's. Since the PK's have ranked attack, they can shoot through them. Deadeye on the SB's means they have boosted attack rolls. While within range of the leader, they get +2" range and damage rolls. Making them effectively range 12 pow14.

The PK's cannot be targeted by spells and while under deceleration they are def15 arm20 and provide much needed cover for the squishy SB's. ARM 17 on the SB's should allow me to absorb any aoe's dropped on the PK's.

This gives me a solid block to move up the middle while still leaving the SB's available for a counter charge.

Your plan isn't necessarily a bad one.

If your goal is to have some infantry behind the PKs that are for shooting, I think I would just take the Arcane Tempest Gunmages. They are better at shooting and while you are kinda missing out on the SBs melee combat abilities, from the way it sounds you would not really be using them well anyway. If they are behind the PKs then they can't charge and if they aren't then the whole formation is wrong. In addition, if you take the ATGs and their UA, you could probably switch out the 10 point Stormclad for a Defender or Cyclone to take advantage of the Rune Shot ability of the ATG UA. If you plan on using Deadeye a lot on the SBs then it would still be effective on the ATGs, probably more. Deadeye would give them a chance to get the Critical on Brutal Damage or Thunderbolt killing or disrupting the movement to engage the PKs Shield Wall.

This would give you 1 point left over for either a Stormcaller to disrupt enemy jacks or Reinholdt. I would probably go with the SC.

Something to think about, however, is the fact that this whole strategy is held together by the survivability of the PKs and you are going with a minimum sized unit. You are going to be so bricked up that one knight dying and a Warjack with Reach and 3 Focus is going to ruin the day of whatever is standing behind that hole.

No doubt that reach and focus or worse yet reach and thresh will definitely ruin the brick.

I don't like the atgm as they are just a bunch of pow 10 shooting and even with deceleration up, they are very vulnerable to aoe's dropped on the pk's.

The reason there is a min unit of pk's in there is this is a 35pt list. There just isn't room to spare.

Also if I dump the pk's, then I don't get the focus help on the stormclad from the sb's.

I do like atgm's and a marshalled defender/avenger with them. I just don't think it's the best for ehaley.

The other problem with the PK brick is that it will be slow if you have to keep ordering shield wall up. Also how would you contest multiple objectives?

Sadly, there is not much in your list that capitalizes on eHaley's spell list.

An arc-node and the Squire are auto-includes with eHaley, but I don't see those 3 Storm Gunners providing the kind of gun line that justifies the protection you're trying to give them.

Two other options are possible, and while I know you aren't a big fan, the ATGM have way more to offer than just POW 10 shots: First of all, they ignore Stealth with the UA. This is huge in Cygnar. They also give you the chance to knock down opponents, clearing that charge lane for Thorn or the TK 'd Stormclad.

Remember eHaley's wonderful spells. TK 2 large enemies out of the charge lane to the caster, put TA on the bonded heavy 'jack, and enough focus ( the Chicken helps here) to make the hit count and Strangeways to make it avoid free strikes on the way in (speaking of which, where is Strangeways? I thought you played Cygnar man!)

You also don't need to use the Stormclad to have an effective hammer for the anvil your Storm Blades provide. An Ironclad is the cheapest heavy 'jack you have and hits almost as hard as the Stormclad's death stick, but for a much better price.

Have you thought of the scariness eHaley unleashes with a Defender marshalled by an ATGM UA? Two shots per turn, ignoring stealth, sniping, boosting both to hit (or damage) with Strangeways and the Marshall. Ouch time.

Ummm...ok. Several things.

The stormclad has reach. That is huge for the assassination run over the ironclad.

The defender does not ignore stealth when marshaled to the atgm's.

Stormblades biggest weakness is they die. Easily. Way to easily. PK's get them there.

Yes, the PK brick is slow in shield wall. It's one of the issues you have with them.

So now I need to take thorn and strangewayes? At 35pts? That's 4pts I need to find. That's not an easy thing to do. I like strangewayes. I just don't see a lot of ways to fit him in at 35pts.

Switch out the Stormcald for an Ironclad and then drop a gunner - theres your 4 points. (There are other ways, dropping eEiryss or the B13th).

I don't really understand how the Cygnar brick is effective at all. PK aren't exactly hard to kill and you lose out on some of the speed Cygnar has due to shield wall. Any army with sprays or aoe's is going to ruin your day. If you had a Jr there to add arcane shield on them that's a different matter (but you don't atm). Not to mention the brick tactic doesn't hold up well in scenarios that make you use the entire table.

Casper wrote:Switch out the Stormcald for an Ironclad and then drop a gunner - theres your 4 points. (There are other ways, dropping eEiryss or the B13th).

I don't really understand how the Cygnar brick is effective at all. PK aren't exactly hard to kill and you lose out on some of the speed Cygnar has due to shield wall. Any army with sprays or aoe's is going to ruin your day. If you had a Jr there to add arcane shield on them that's a different matter (but you don't atm). Not to mention the brick tactic doesn't hold up well in scenarios that make you use the entire table.

There are few steam roller scenarios that use the entire table.

Drop Eiryss or the B13th? ReAlLy? As some one mentioned "I thought you played Cygnar man!"

Jr can't cast AS on PK's.

No infantry is really 'hard to kill' outside of multi-wound infantry, which cygnar has none of, especially in melee.

If you don't think ARM20 DEF15 models, that can't be targetted by spells, aren't hard to kill with shooting, well you must not desire to take ANY cygnar infantry. Sprays and aoe's are not going to ruin my day at all, unless it would primarily be from khador.

imweasel wrote:

Drop Eiryss or the B13th? ReAlLy? As some one mentioned "I thought you played Cygnar man!"

Jr can't cast AS on PK's.

No infantry is really 'hard to kill' outside of multi-wound infantry, which cygnar has none of, especially in melee.

If you don't think ARM20 DEF15 models, that can't be targetted by spells, aren't hard to kill with shooting, well you must not desire to take ANY cygnar infantry. Sprays and aoe's are not going to ruin my day at all, unless it would primarily be from khador.

I forgot the PK UA gave Spell Ward.

As to eEiryss I only use her for Ret so I never use her with my Cygnar. I was listing options to fit Thorn and Arlan - (you really only need Arlan, thorn is nice but not necessary at 35 points).

Against shooting PKs aren't bad but if something charges they are done.

As for aoe's I was more thinking Menoth...they don't need to hit you directly to kill you with Vanquishers.

Casper wrote:I forgot the PK UA gave Spell Ward.

As to eEiryss I only use her for Ret so I never use her with my Cygnar. I was listing options to fit Thorn and Arlan - (you really only need Arlan, thorn is nice but not necessary at 35 points).

Against shooting PKs aren't bad but if something charges they are done.

As for aoe's I was more thinking Menoth...they don't need to hit you directly to kill you with Vanquishers.

Well, if anything charges any cygnar infantry, they are done.

However, I am intrigued about the vanqs. What exactly can the vanqs do? I was more worried about joe with khador.

eEiryss is the only thing cygnar can take that deals with animi and upkeeps. Very important. She's also good against non-myrmidon warjacks.

I would love to fit arlen in the list. I just don't see anything that I could take out at 35pts. The gunners in this list are better than most anything else I can think of. Perhaps I could go with arlen and a stormsmith instead...

imweasel wrote:Ummm...ok. Several things.

The defender does not ignore stealth when marshaled to the atgm's.

I said the UA makes him ignore stealth. The UA makes all members of the unit ignore stealth. A marshalled 'jack is a member of the unit

Kentucky-Irregulars wrote: A marshalled 'jack is a member of the unit

I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. Are you activate your marshaled 'jacks separately from their marshal, or doing both the unit and the 'jack all in the same activation? Does it follow the rules for formation, and execute any orders issued to the unit?

the Jack Marshal rule (on it's own, excluding drives or other shenanigans) does exactly 4 things:
allows you to buy a warjack without putting it in a battlegroup.
1 of 3 benefits per activation, while within CMD of the marshal (run/charge, buy an attack, boost an attack or damage roll)
allows a 'jack that loses it's controller to become autonomous rather than fully inert (as is the case with warcasters and the journeyman)
allows a jack marshal to reactive inert jacks, or take control of autonomous ones.

Kentucky-Irregulars wrote:
I said the UA makes him ignore stealth. The UA makes all members of the unit ignore stealth. A marshalled 'jack is a member of the unit

A defender is not part of the atgm unit. I would suggest a refresher course on how jack marshall's work.

Jacks don't even activate at the same time as the unit/model marshalling it does. It's a separate activation.

imweasel wrote:
However, I am intrigued about the vanqs. What exactly can the vanqs do? I was more worried about joe with khador.

Vanqs have an AoE 4 pow 14 that lights everything underneath it on fire. Even if they miss whatever is on fire will die unless it goes out.

Casper wrote:

imweasel wrote:
However, I am intrigued about the vanqs. What exactly can the vanqs do? I was more worried about joe with khador.

Vanqs have an AoE 4 pow 14 that lights everything underneath it on fire. Even if they miss whatever is on fire will die unless it goes out.

PK's will still be under the effect of shield wall, so they have a good chance of surviving.

I thought it was crit fire. Better work on that!

Shield wall lasts one round so your turn, enemy's turn. Then it's your turn and before you can get them back in shield wall the continuous fire damage takes place.

yastobaal wrote:Shield wall lasts one round so your turn, enemy's turn. Then it's your turn and before you can get them back in shield wall the continuous fire damage takes place.

I thought orders lasted until the units next activation. Am I missing something here?

Yeah, the beginning of your control you do fire. No one has given or received orders this turn yet, before focus is distributed. I cut this out of the PDF rules to help.

Maintenance Phase
During the Maintenance Phase, perform the following steps in order:
Remove all focus points from your models.
Check for expiration of continuous effects on any models you control. After removing all expired continuous effects, resolve the effects of those that remain in play. All damage dealt by continuous effects is resolved simultaneously (see p. XXX).
Resolve all other effects that occur during the Maintenance Phase.

Control Phase

Activation Phase

Orders and effects that last for one round expire at the beginning of your turn.

This means that fire hits casters before they replenish focus, and units do not benefit from shield wall.