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I saw this situation the other day, and wanted to see how people would play it (NOT asking for rules or what they say, as I already know this).

T = Difficult Terrain
1 = Unit 1
2 = Unit 2

11111111 TT1111TT TTT1TTT TTT TTT TTT2TTT TT222TTT 22222222

Unit 2 wanted to assault unit 1. They moved the closest model of unit 2 into contact with the closest model of unit 1 without terrain being involved. Afterwards, the controller of Unit 2 rolled a difficult terrain test for the rest of Unit 2 to assault. He rolled double 1s. The original distance between the two units was 4", and so the controller of Unit 2 moved his models back where they were, and said that his assault had failed.

What would you have done instead (if anything) if you were in player 2's shoes?

That is the correct way to play it, if you can not reach the unit, you do not move.

Declare assault, roll for distance, measure the 1" and fail. No reason to move models.

Its the correct way to play it, so thats how i'd play it.

Yeah, since the other '2' models need to go through the terrain to assault the '1' models, a DT should have been rolled prior to any movement. If the '1' unit couldn't be reached, there is no assault.

I agree that it was done (more or less) correctly, though like previous responders I believe the Difficult Terrain test should have been rolled prior to moving any models.

If I may semi-hijack, if the terrain were Dangerous Terrain, would the #2 unit be required to take Dangerous Terrain tests for every model in the unit? Just the model that "tried" to move? None of the models?

This is a complicated issue and a major problem with the current 40k ruleset. When assaulting a unit that is partially through DT, you need to know exactly where each model assaulting will end up going. And, you need to do this without moving anything or pre-measuring. It's basically impossible.

Your example is rather clearcut. Clearly at least 1 model is going to have to go through DT, so you should roll the test before moving anything. It's the situations where there's just a little bit of DT and you think you may be able to avoid it where the game breaks.

Kitzz wrote:wanted to see how people would play it

As an aside, how else would you play it?

puma713 wrote:

Kitzz wrote:wanted to see how people would play it

As an aside, how else would you play it?

There is nothing that I can find (and granted, this is using my sub-par reading skills) that says that a unit will not count as assaulting as long as the first model makes it, regardless of the ability of any other models to do so afterward. The stipulation in the rules that prevents assault based on difficult terrain refers only to the first model moved. I simply wanted to see how many people actually played that way. Honestly, I'm not sure the rest of the squad even has to roll difficult terrain, but for sanity's sake I would assume that's the case.

1) The rest of the squad MUST roll DT, they have no choice in the matter. They MUST try to enter terrain, as you must comply with the bullet points.

2) If you roll a low enough distance on your DT that the first model cannot make it, the assault fails

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/393704.page

This is also being discussed here. Diagrams and everything.

The first model is moved before the DT test. It has already moved. Is it legal to move it again? Also, it seems to me that player 2 can choose to have the assaulting models not attempt to move through the difficult terrain at all, as per the normal movement rules.

@nos: I would agree with your #2 if it wasn't explicitly stated that the other models move AFTER the first one is finished.

Kitzz wrote:Also, it seems to me that player 2 can choose to have the assaulting models not attempt to move through the difficult terrain at all, as per the normal movement rules.

You can't choose to avoid dangerous terrain in an assault - you have to try and move to BtB an unengaged model, which in this scenario would trigger a DT test.

I've revised my opinion, however. The first model would be moved, make it into BtB, the roll fails, and other models would either move into coherence in the open, or move 1" into the DT. The assault doesn't fail since the one model made contact. That one model would get the penalty for charging through DT, however, since his unit was forced to roll for it.

That is not correct.

P.36 assaulting through cover tells us: "If, following the rules for moving assaulting models, any model in an assaulting unit will have to go through difficult or dangerous terrain as part of its assault move, the unit must take the relevant terrain test before moving."

So, if you are going to go through difficult terrain you test on 2D6 as normal, and if the closest model can not make it, the assault fails and the unit does not move.

... I missed that sentence. Or misread it. Either way you're right and my post is wrong. On the plus side, my original one was right!

Kitzz - you move the first model for convenience, not because of the rules allowing it.

You can also, potentially, move other models such that models that could have moved through terrain no longer have to.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Kitzz - you move the first model for convenience, not because of the rules allowing it.

Actually, no - the rules do say to move the closest model to the closest model, then move everyone else. (page 34? don't have my BRB with me) They go on to say, however, that if any model in the unit is going to need to make a DT test, you make the DT test and limit the first model to that much movement - which can cause the assault to fail. DeathReaper pointed that part out on page 36.

Rigeld - i am 100% aware of this. Look at the context, and note I am responding to a point saying you cannot make the assault fail because you have already moved the first model.

Ah - gotcha. Sorry.

Would it not also be possible, as it is a "normal move" and the exception is listed, to simply declare that you are not assaulting through cover, as you can do so in a normal move? Could it not be interpreted that the second paragraph only applies to the other normal move option when it comes to difficult terrain?

No, because you still have to try to get additional models into B2B with unengaged models, as per the assault rules.

Also, you do not declare that you are or are not assaulting through cover, you just declare you are assaulting and follow the rules for moving assaulting models.

If this brings you through cover then you have to roll for Difficult terrain.

Kitzz wrote:Would it not also be possible, as it is a "normal move" and the exception is listed, to simply declare that you are not assaulting through cover, as you can do so in a normal move? Could it not be interpreted that the second paragraph only applies to the other normal move option when it comes to difficult terrain?

No, yhou have no choice but the follow the bullets in the assault moves section: these are non optional.

If they would force you to move through cover, you MUST take the test.

No ifs, no buts, the ONLY way around it is to be finicky with how you move models. Thats it.