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Hey, so I'm looking at the Dark eldar codex and I am in the process of procuring some models and getting used to the range. I'm looking at the haemonculi and I love their fluff/models/anything related to them. I've seen some things on haemonculi coven lists around but nothing really that struck me as interesting. So the question is, what do you guys think about haemonculi coven lists and can you do them mech'd up or would you do a WWP version? Also unit choices in the FA and Elites slots is good information.

I'd personally do it meched up, but that's just me.
You're probably gonna have to bite the bullet and go with some Ravagers either way you play that army, since not being able to break tanks is really, really bad for that style of an army.

For Elites, Groteqsues (with S6 if you include Urien) can really put a hurt on enemy vehicles with easy access to Furious Charge/Fearless.

For FA, fluff-wise and competitively I seriously suggest Scourges with Haywire Blasters. The ability to stun-lock vehicles that are then assaulted by Grotesques/Pain Engines is too good to pass.

Unfortunately, Coven lists are more close combat oriented, meaning they will struggle against mech armies. Destroying transports in the assault phase is a tough way to play.

For a coven army I recommend Webway Portal lists. This allows you to use things like Talos' and Cronos engines to maximum effect. They will also totally throw your opponents off if they've never faced one

As said, a pure Coven list will struggle in a mech environment. You need to stack haywire blasters or dark light weapons somewhere.

If I were to run a Coven, I would take a Chronos and at least 1-2 Talos. Talos are downright nasty, with access to a 5 point twin-linked Haywire Blaster on a T7 3+ save model is gross. Those will draw a lot of fire if your opponent has played them before and if they haven't, they'll be if for a hellish nightmare trying to kill them.

Webway Portals are essential in a list like this as they allow the gap to be closed for your Wracks and Grotesques. The best way to get them in your opponent's deployment zone is to use a Venom with a cheap Haemonculus + 4 Wracks and have it blitz the middle of their line, have the portal pop out and voíla, the enemy is hosed. A Talos could roll out of there and immediately start killing stuff. Plus beefy units of Grotesques w/Haemonculi already with FNP jumping put to smash units in cover (liquifier guns all over the place!)

Urien with 2-3 Haemonculi would be wise as they can be sprinkled around the army and they are essential to keeping Grotesques from going nuts on your units as well as your enemy's.

I would second Scourges, they bring a lot of versatility with a relative cheap cost. Heat Lances are awesome for the cost and Haywire Blasters are damn good. Their base weapons (Shardcarbines) aren't bad for a base weapon.

A Coven is a bit more difficult to run than a Blaster spam list, but I would find more gratifying to run it and pull it off. The big gripe with this list is all of the Finecast models needed for it.

Thanks for the responses guys. As another note, How many WWP would you run? Just 1? Or is 2-3 the right number to make sure you have a place to run the army out of.

I was definitely thinking scourges, both for the versatility and speed, but also for the look of the models.

yeah I know the finecast ratio in this army is totally bananas, but as long as they replace any miscasts Im fine.

Most WWP lists use 2 or 3.

Mr. Self Destruct wrote:Most WWP lists use 2 or 3.

So I'm guessing something along the lines of at 2k+ running 3x Haemonculi, & Urien as your HQs and give the 3 regular dudes WWP.

Mr. Self Destruct wrote:I'd personally do it meched up, but that's just me.

i was playing around with this idea this morning, and if you go with decent sized wrack squads (can't fit in a venom) you have to buy the raiders with FF and that runs you an easy 400 points in transports for your troop choices at higher point games. Of course not taking into account the transports for grotesques and anything else you might be taking that's a lot of points in transports. But if you go meched up you don't necessarily need to spend the points in something like tricked out haywire scourges to get your AT. Ravagers seem like the way to go if meched up, but definitely Talos/Cronos if going WWP...

I would personally never use a Cronos with a Coven list. If you go meched up, it doesn't move as fast as your vehicles. And since, if you take Urien, the Grots can get Furious Charge early and that everyone starts with the necessary FnP, you're not going to get much use out of one.

HQ
----
Baron - 105 pts
Haemunculous - Webway port - 85 pts
Haemunculous - Webway port - 85 pts

Elites
-------
3x Trueborn - 3x blasters, venom - 136 pts
3x Trueborn - 3x blasters, venom - 136 pts

Troops
---------
5x wracks - Liquifier gun, venom - 105 pts
5x wracks - Liquifier gun, venom - 105 pts
5x warriors - blaster - 60 pts
5x warriors - blaster - 60 pts
5x warriors - blaster - 60 pts

Fast Attack
-------------
Beasts - 4x Beastmasters, 10x Khymarae, 4x razorwings - 228 pts
Beasts - 4x Beastmasters, 10x Khymarae, 4x razorwings - 228 pts

Heavy Support
-----------------
Talos - Chain Flails, Twin-Linked Haywire Grenades - 115 pts
Talos - Chain Flails, Twin-Linked Haywire Grenades - 115 pts
Cronos - Spirit Probe - 90 pts

My example of a 1750 WWP list

Zid wrote:HQ
----
Baron - 105 pts
Haemunculous - Webway port - 85 pts
Haemunculous - Webway port - 85 pts

Elites
-------
3x Trueborn - 3x blasters, venom - 136 pts
3x Trueborn - 3x blasters, venom - 136 pts

Troops
---------
5x wracks - Liquifier gun, venom - 105 pts
5x wracks - Liquifier gun, venom - 105 pts
5x warriors - blaster - 60 pts
5x warriors - blaster - 60 pts
5x warriors - blaster - 60 pts

Fast Attack
-------------
Beasts - 4x Beastmasters, 10x Khymarae, 4x razorwings - 228 pts
Beasts - 4x Beastmasters, 10x Khymarae, 4x razorwings - 228 pts

Heavy Support
-----------------
Talos - Chain Flails, Twin-Linked Haywire Grenades - 115 pts
Talos - Chain Flails, Twin-Linked Haywire Grenades - 115 pts
Cronos - Spirit Probe - 90 pts

My example of a 1750 WWP list

I definitely see the advantage of this type of list. However it's not quite what I was going for. I'm looking for more the pure Coven list. The coven units in here make up a very small quantity of units in here. Though the beast packs are pretty bananas...Thanks for the input! I might draw up a list in the next couple days...and post in army list forums with my ideas

ToI wrote:

Zid wrote:HQ
----
Baron - 105 pts
Haemunculous - Webway port - 85 pts
Haemunculous - Webway port - 85 pts

Elites
-------
3x Trueborn - 3x blasters, venom - 136 pts
3x Trueborn - 3x blasters, venom - 136 pts

Troops
---------
5x wracks - Liquifier gun, venom - 105 pts
5x wracks - Liquifier gun, venom - 105 pts
5x warriors - blaster - 60 pts
5x warriors - blaster - 60 pts
5x warriors - blaster - 60 pts

Fast Attack
-------------
Beasts - 4x Beastmasters, 10x Khymarae, 4x razorwings - 228 pts
Beasts - 4x Beastmasters, 10x Khymarae, 4x razorwings - 228 pts

Heavy Support
-----------------
Talos - Chain Flails, Twin-Linked Haywire Grenades - 115 pts
Talos - Chain Flails, Twin-Linked Haywire Grenades - 115 pts
Cronos - Spirit Probe - 90 pts

My example of a 1750 WWP list

I definitely see the advantage of this type of list. However it's not quite what I was going for. I'm looking for more the pure Coven list. The coven units in here make up a very small quantity of units in here. Though the beast packs are pretty bananas...Thanks for the input! I might draw up a list in the next couple days...and post in army list forums with my ideas

Pure coven will be rough... So scourges in the FA slots, then do large grotesque/wrack units to come from the portals. Urien is pretty much a must. Trueborn can fit into coven lists; just say they're assisting the Haemis for more biogentic upgrades or something. You def want them for some AT!

I understand that in a mech environment that Pure coven is just painful. However as I mentioned earlier I can do a Coven Mech list that runs less models but more durability and more AT. I really hadn't thought about trueborn in a coven list, mostly because I'd just inserted X grotesques in each elite slot where X is the most you can fit in points wise after everything else.

So in the WWP list do you generally deploy the two venoms on the board with the trueborn and a haemonculus in each, move 12 up and then just drop the WWP in such a way that you have a lot of versatility? I'm just really not used to this type of play style, but it sounds like all sorts of fun to me

I would love to take a heavy WWP list to tournament, but since the WWP was a limited release thing that happened before i got into DE, and you can't order them from the GW site either, i'm basically stuck on that.

Heamonculi have some very nasty tricks, but a massive lack of effective midrange+ firepower. It's a very in-your-face army

You could always use the standard three ravagers in your HS, and just model them with wrack gunners. You'd lose the talos, but it seems like youre very concerned about being able to win.

ToI wrote:I understand that in a mech environment that Pure coven is just painful. However as I mentioned earlier I can do a Coven Mech list that runs less models but more durability and more AT. I really hadn't thought about trueborn in a coven list, mostly because I'd just inserted X grotesques in each elite slot where X is the most you can fit in points wise after everything else.

So in the WWP list do you generally deploy the two venoms on the board with the trueborn and a haemonculus in each, move 12 up and then just drop the WWP in such a way that you have a lot of versatility? I'm just really not used to this type of play style, but it sounds like all sorts of fun to me

Venoms w/ 4 wracks and haemi w/ WWP in each, then the trueborn venoms move up to provide AT support.

You want the Baron specifically to get the +1 to first turn (Vect would be good too just to play with your foes heads)

Baron, Vect, trueborn, ravagers are all far from fitting in a coven fluff list.

You'll have to decide if you want a fluffy list, or competitive coven based list

How about something like this:

Heamy x6
-Liquifier
-CC weapon of choice
-WWP on 1-3 of them

4x9 Wracks
-Liquifier

2x4 Grots
-Liquifier optional

1-3 units of scourges x5
-2x special weapon of choice

AND/OR

1-3 Beastmaster units (I usually run 3 BMs, 5 Khymarea, 4 razorwing; but you can also do 5 BMs, 10 Khymarea, 6 razorwings)

3x Talos
-Chainflails
-Gun of choice



All walking units (except Taloi) start with 2 tokens. Talos and grots are great at busting tanks, especially if you can stun/immobilize the vehicles, as can beasts. Wracks fights and score. BMs, taloi, grots can all fight in CC. This kind of list can easily fit in 2000 points, and is completely heamy oriented.

You must be careful of a few things. If you want power weapons, you're going to have to pay for them, likely on the heamies (taloi get them from being monstrous). Liquifiers will help against power/terminator armor. You're also going to have some way of deploying no less than 1 portal on turn one, which likely means you need 1-2 vehicles to start on the board. If everything else reserves for the portal, you'd better hope to go first or hope your portal vehicles can withstand the first turn of fire. Finally, I would lean toward 3 portals, because most of what's coming out is still slow. Having deployment choices will greatly mitigate the slow walking problem and run your enemy ragged.

Is that more in line with what you were thinking?

Qualifier- Liquifiers *might* help vs Power/Termie armour.

They have a better chance of still allowing armour saves than denying them, though occasionally that AP 1 flamer strike can be awesomesauce

Pretty good list, if you can get the portals somewhere useful

Ascalam wrote:I would love to take a heavy WWP list to tournament, but since the WWP was a limited release thing that happened before i got into DE, and you can't order them from the GW site either, i'm basically stuck on that.

Heamonculi have some very nasty tricks, but a massive lack of effective midrange+ firepower. It's a very in-your-face army

I managed to get one before they sold out. Real happy I did now. I wasn't even considering playing DE at the time.

Stormrider wrote:

Ascalam wrote:I would love to take a heavy WWP list to tournament, but since the WWP was a limited release thing that happened before i got into DE, and you can't order them from the GW site either, i'm basically stuck on that.

Heamonculi have some very nasty tricks, but a massive lack of effective midrange+ firepower. It's a very in-your-face army

I managed to get one before they sold out. Real happy I did now. I wasn't even considering playing DE at the time.

That makes me sad face...I really want a couple of those but when they show up on Ebay they are like 45-50 bucks minimum

Yup. Scalpers bought them all up and tripled the price on them


For those that have them, what size are they exactly? If i can find a dome of the same size i may be able to convince my TO to let me proxy.

3" in diameter the same as the small blast

Thanks.

I think i may have a source on 3'' domes

If all else fails i guess i can petition to be allowed to use small blast templates..

The entry in the codex says to use a marker "of similar size" to a 3" template so you could just use 3" templates...just don't be surprised if you forget what they are there for a few times and accidentally pick them up XD.

Heh..

Or mistake them for vortex grenades in one mission i played recently..

Wandering templates can be scary

Ascalam wrote:Heh..

Or mistake them for vortex grenades in one mission i played recently..

Wandering templates can be scary

Ride headlong into that wandering vortex grenade like a real man!

I did

Not intentionally, but very manly for that brief second or so..

My stoic expression stayed glued on for almost 3 seconds...

Go hard or go home, hemy coven all the way, try this list I drew it for my friend who went to ard boys with it, he did pretty good. He has a fully painted prophets of flesh army with dead tau parts on the bases it's sick, it's based on the fluff from the codex. Note the 20 Liquifiers.

HQ-475 2500
Urien Rakarth-190
Haemonculus-Liquifier,Webway portal-95
Haemonculus-Liquifier,Webway portal-95
Haemonculus-Liquifier,Webway portal-95
Elites-750
Grotesquesx6,extra S,liquifier,
Aberration/Flesh gauntlet-280
Grotesquesx6,extra S,liquifier,
Aberration/Flesh gauntlet-280
Grotesquesx6,extra S,liquifier,
Aberration/Flesh gauntlet-280
Troops-855
wracksx5-Liquifier-60
Raider-FF-Shock Prow-75
wracksx5-Liquifier-60
Raider-FF-Shock Prow-75
wracksx5-Liquifier-60
Raider-FF-Shock Prow-75
Wracksx10-x2Liquifier,Acothyst,agoniser-150
Wracksx10-x2Liquifier,Acothyst,agoniser-150
Wracksx10-x2Liquifier,Acothyst,agoniser-150
Heavy-330
Talos Pain Engine,t-l Liquifier,t-l Haywire blaster-110
Talos Pain Engine,t-l Liquifier,t-l Haywire blaster-110
Talos Pain Engine,t-l Liquifier,t-l Haywire blaster-110
Total:2500 Ard Boys