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Okay, I don't know if this kind of stuff has been discussed much or at all here, so here's my take on it.

You know how units can only move 6 inches and shoot 2 bullets 12 inches, and such and such, right? Let's try to convert this stuff to real life measurements.[u]

A base for a regular sized model is one inch in diameter. From novels and articles I'm guessing a space marine is 8 feet tall in power armor. Space marine models are 1.3 inches tall.

1.3"/96" = 1"/x"

x = 73.846. An inch on the table top is about 73 inches in real life, or 6.1 feet/1.859 meters.

A unit may only move 6 inches at normal speed. 6 * 6.1 = 36.6 feet, or 11.15568 meters.

Now, let's see how far weapons can shoot in 40k.

-Boltpistol: range 12". 12 * 6.1 = 73.2 feet, or 23.311 meters. Reasonable, for a one handed weapon.

-Boltgun: range 24". Simply double the range of a boltpistol. 146.4 feet, or 46.622 meters. That's pathetic, even when you're still and firing semi-auto.

-Heavy Bolter: range 36". high caliber heavy machinegun. 219.6 feet, or 66.934 meters. If you're holding it, that's understandable. If it's mounted on a platform, that's ludicrous.

-Autocannon: this is like the cannon from a light tank. range 48". 292.8 feet, or 89.245 meters. Eh.. when it's on a predator it should be able to shoot farther.

-Battlecannon: this is a tank turret's main cannon. range 72". 439.2 feet, or 133.868 meters. This is more reasonable, if you had iron sights. Surely there must be better targeters in year 40000.

There you go. That's the approximate range of the weapons in the futuristic world of 40k.

Now for something more interesting...
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Ever wondered how long is each phase? How many bullets are actually fired with each 'shot'?

"Infantry move up to six inches (6" in the movement phase. This represents most creatures moving at a reasonable pace but stopping several times to scan the surrounding landscape for enemies, communicate with their commanders, etc."

Okay, I tried this in my backyard and moved 11.15568 meters at a reasonable pace, but stopping several times to scan the flowers for bees, communicate with my dog, etc.

I timed it, and it took about (trial 1: 11.6 seconds, trial 2: 11.8 seconds, trial 3: 10.1 seconds) an average of 11.2 seconds. I was doing exactly what it said the units would do.

So.... a movement phase would take about 11.2 seconds ASSUMING that everyone moves simultaneously, which they probably do as charging infantry would not wait for some dude to sit by a rock.
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For the shooting phase: this is a bit trickier. IF I ASSUME that ALL phases last for an average of 11.2 seconds, I can probably tell how many bullets are fired in the shooting phase.

We can assume that people shoot on the move only for suppressing fire, as none of those shots were intended to hit. When they stop, they will take aim and shoot.

11.2 seconds done --------> they are already in firing position. Average time to raise boltgun and acquire target from 37 meters away (trial 1 (with my UMP45) : 4.2 seconds, trial 2: 4.2 seconds, trial 3: 3.8 seconds) 4.06 seconds. Average time to raise boltgun and acquire target from 24 meters away (trial 1: 2.4 seconds, trial 2: 1.8 seconds, trial 3 1.9 seconds) 2.03 seconds.

Long distance shot:
"The model currently used by the Space Marines is designated the 'Astartes MK Vb Godwyn pattern' and tends to be fired in 4 round bursts" (quote from Lexicanum.com). I could not find the RPM anywhere online, and that it is a ONE calibre bullet (24 mm..?), with the primitive technologies of the imperium, there should be a substantial amount of recoil even with power armor; I will assume the weapon fires at 750 rounds per minute, not too fast or slow. (here is an example of 750RPM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYZCCNzT4O4).
Back to the assumption that the shooting phase lasts for 11.2 seconds as well, 11.2 - 4.06 = 7.14 seconds of burstfire shooting.
750/60 = 12.5 bullets per second.
4 round burst = approximately 0.32 seconds. With the heavy power armor, he could probably most absorb that recoil. I am much too lazy to try to calculate it with more SUPPOSED values, but if you want you can do it yourself http://www.xinventions.com/main/spud/recoil.htm/. I will assume for the space marine to re-aim the gun would take 1.3 seconds (it's mid against targets behind cover).
1.3+0.32 = 1.62.
7.14 / 1.62 = 4-5 bursts, about 16-25 bullets

So at Long Range (for 40k) the space marine shoots about 16-25 bullets with accurate bursts of 4.

Short distance shot: They probably will be firing almost fully automatic, or shoot about 8 shots at a target, possibly killing or making him/her/it go into cover. They might cease firing to control recoil: I will assume this time lapse to be 0.2 seconds.
11.2 - 2.03 = 9.17 seconds of shooting.
**** actually, going by the model for rapidfire weapons that long range is one shot, short range is simply only double, the space marine will only fire 32-50 shots. This is quite reasonable. They will probably deplete their magazine from the brutal close range shooting.
So: for ranges of 23 meters and under a space marine will probably fire his entire clip. Disregard some of the other stuff above.


SO FAR: Case 1: A space marine moves 12 meters into firing position, shoots his entire magazine into an enemy squad 24 meters away. Reload. Case 2: A space marine sits idly, or reloads guns, for 11.2 seconds, shoots 16-25 bullets in 4 shot bursts at an enemy 47 meters away.

If you want to calculate for any other weapons, be my guest. This takes way too long.


Now, let's talk about the assault phase. So, the space marine moved (being aware of his surroundings), took firing position by some piece of cover, shot his entire magazine at the enemy. Now what?

We can assume that after both sides shot each other up, they both took losses, so the shooter probably took cover PROVIDING THAT HE DOES NOT ASSAULT. He would probably check to see if his brother's wound is fatal, reload his weapon, or just keep supressing. If there wasn't cover nearby, the squad would probably go prone for 11.2 seconds, or watch their brothers whack the enemy with chainswords.

IF the space marine and his squad assaults the enemy he just shot at, and also assuming the weapon he fired was ASSAULT type, he would sprint up to the enemy ONLY IF it was 12 meters away.

I ran 12 meters as if I was charging an enemy with bulky power armor on, and timed it. Average time it takes to charge any enemy 12 meters away: 3.7 seconds. So it takes 3.7 seconds AT MOST to reach the enemy. Any closer it would be 1-2 seconds.

A veteran sergeant with a power sword and bolt pistol charging would have 4 attacks. For the charging attack, he probably tackles them, shoots his pistol, etc. It's hard to tell because of the many factors involved.

We'll just assume that IN THE ASSAULT PHASE, units that declared an assault move will fight for (11.2 - 3 = 8.2) around 7-10 seconds, slashing and stabbing, shooting and whacking, blocking and parrying.

For sweeping advances, I'll assume that the losing squad took so many losses that they already thought about retreating before the 11.2 seconds ended, and if they failed the leadership test they get shot in the back, stabbed while trying to get up, etc. With this extra time, the winning squad will consolidate with quite some speed. Should the squad that survived the sweeping advance retreat, they would probably sprint with EXTREME speed (2D6 inches in only seconds...).
When piling in, we'll assume models still alive will have killed their primary opponent and will move 2-3 meters to engage another target. If people are still fighting, they will probably have deflected each other's hits and both pulled back to catch their breath.


What about units locked in close combat DURING the movement phase and shooting phase? We can only assume that A: they are still fighting hard for a further 22.4 seconds, but they are quite matched and block/absorb eachother's attacks; B: both sides take losses and pull back a bit with their own comrades, just to pounce back into the fray in the following assault phase.


That's about it. A turn takes 33.6 seconds in reality. What I can't figure out is the your-turn-my-turn thing. I'm guessing both sides are actually moving simultaneously, but cr@p always happens to make them slow down a bit (like a sergeant yapping orders, traversing random terrrain, tripping over a banana peel) which woud make EVERYTHING fit together like a little jigsaw puzzle.

I HOPE THIS WAS HELPFUL. It was for me, but it took a good 20 minutes to write it...

I'm leaving you guys to do the rest, like for vehicles and such.

EDIT: Okay.. an average game of 40k will probably be 6 turns. 6*33.6 = 221.76. 221.76 + 200 (accounts for other player's turn and the stuff that could be happening in between) = 421.76

So a battle/mission in real life would be only about SEVEN MINUTES, MORE OR LESS!!!

Pretty funny how short range the heavy weapons are. A IRL autocannon like the Bushmaster has a max range of like 5,000 meters.

It doesn't make much sense, but GW had to fit this game onto a table...

Yeah, weapon ranges are always short in tabletop games (well, maybe not always, but I've not read many hard historical rulesets; all the sci-fi seems to be short-ranged). You need to fit the game on a table and (for 40k) you need an excuse for close combat to be relevant. That adds up to very short weapon ranges.

This is awesome.
= 73.846. An inch on the table top is about 73 inches in real life, or 6.1 feet.
So if a Chimera was flying at top speed on a road. That would translate into 18.3 ft.
That's my part.

Ranges in 40k cannot be transcribed to accurate ranges in real life.

Leonus Cohol wrote:This is awesome.
= 73.846. An inch on the table top is about 73 inches in real life, or 6.1 feet.
So if a Chimera was flying at top speed on a road. That would translate into 18.3 ft.
That's my part.

Glad you like it lol.

There's a ton of bs in this game, almost as much as the entire fluff itself.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nerivant wrote:Ranges in 40k cannot be transcribed to accurate ranges in real life.

I'm quite aware, but I am trying to do so relative to the ratio of measurements of tabletop to reality.

Thanks for the scale


But really, how much fun would the game be if it was entirely realistic? Hell, if it were me I would just throw some anti-matter into a planet and watch it explode.

Yarrick's Eye counts as Hot-Shot laspistol.
It shoots up to 6in'
So his eye could supposedly reach out and feth someone up from 6 feet away. LOL

yamgrenade wrote:Thanks for the scale


But really, how much fun would the game be if it was entirely realistic? Hell, if it were me I would just throw some anti-matter into a planet and watch it explode.

NP. I know, all games need to sacrifice some degree of realism for playability, but it's just fun to see how ridiculous it is converted to real life


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Leonus Cohol wrote:Yarrick's Eye counts as Hot-Shot laspistol.
It shoots up to 6in'
So his eye could supposedly reach out and feth someone up from 6 feet away. LOL

37 feet away, really! that's ridiculous!!

I think it's fantastic you went through and did those calculations - and yes I believe the shooting isn't true to life, but at the same time I always felt the ranges were limited due to the fact the marines/whoever were waiting to acquire a solid shot - not just fire off rounds at the bolt gun's maximum cyclic rate.

Warhammer used to be closer to real life back in the day too - Keep in mind hte game we play today is evolved from a very archaic, rules intensive game. Back in the day you had turning templates and had to make driving tests. You had much different ranges and effects and the like.

An intersting note on your calculations - The small blast template is about a 15 foot explosion - about right for a small explosion - and the other a 30 foot explosion. I was an Artilleryman in the army and real life artillery was capable of causing damage from as far as 50 meters away with a casualty radius of 15 meters - so this is a little light on the side of accuracy but plausible.

2000 Volts wrote:I think it's fantastic you went through and did those calculations - and yes I believe the shooting isn't true to life, but at the same time I always felt the ranges were limited due to the fact the marines/whoever were waiting to acquire a solid shot - not just fire off rounds at the bolt gun's maximum cyclic rate.

Warhammer used to be closer to real life back in the day too - Keep in mind hte game we play today is evolved from a very archaic, rules intensive game. Back in the day you had turning templates and had to make driving tests. You had much different ranges and effects and the like.

An intersting note on your calculations - The small blast template is about a 15 foot explosion - about right for a small explosion - and the other a 30 foot explosion. I was an Artilleryman in the army and real life artillery was capable of causing damage from as far as 50 meters away with a casualty radius of 15 meters - so this is a little light on the side of accuracy but plausible.

AHH dang i completely forgot about blast and template!!!! thanks for bringing it up.
Interesting point on the 'old' warhammer, they probably learned to trade realism for gameplay.

I agree with you on the artillery theory. Sounds fairly reasonable for average mortar/artillery.

I enjoy threads like these. I understand the ranges are all shortchanged in an effort to focus more attention on close range firefights and hand to hand combat, which are frankly much more interesting from a gaming perspective. The only games I've played with really accurate weapon ranges were some Napoleonics/Revolutionary/Civil War games, and Microarmor scaled stuff.