Black Templar 2500 Swarm List

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**Commisar Von Humps**

Hey guys, i was doing some work for school, that happened to involve the Crusades intro Jerusalem, and of course this got me revved up and thinking of my Templars. Combined with the art of the Templars codex along with reading about swarms of armored knights fighting through the blood pooled roads of Jerusalem, i got thinking, why don't templar armies have masses of overtly zealous maniacs steam rolling their enemies? So i came up with an Infantry Based army and my friend has agreed to try play test it with me this coming friday against his CSM, just wondering what people think of it and what i should expect -

HQ:
Empreors Champion : Accept any Challenge no Matter the Odds

Master Of Sanctity 1: Storm Shield, Melta Bombs, Holy Orbs of Antioch – 135 Points

Master Of Sanctity 2: Storm Shield, Melta Bombs, Holy Orbs of Antioch, Bionics – 140 Points

Troops:

(3) Drop Pods – 90 Points

(3) Crusader Squads : 10 initiates, 10 Neophytes, Power Weapon, Melta Gun, CC Initiates, Shotgun Neophytes – 840 Points

(3) Crusader Squads : 10 initiates, 10 Neophytes, Power Fist, Flamer, CC Initiates, Shotgun Neophytes – 840 Points

Heavy Support:

Predator Annihilator: Lascannon Sponsons, Power of the Machine Spirit – 175 Points

Predator Destructor: Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Power of the Machine Spirit – 140 Points

Total: 2,500 Points

Also, one questions, in the FAQ it says i can take drop pods without anyone to transport(id use them as cover for my advancing horde), but since they are not dedicated transports, do they take up a troops choice slot?

**Akroma06**

The drop pods are dedicated first of all. Second no one has to be in them. With that said. Your lacking alot of AT punch. Honestly the assault marines would be closest to that era of fighter if you gave everyone a SS. Also our DP don't have the new DP assault special rule so they don't come in automatically so I wouldn't go with them.
I would also much rather have a Marshal for the overall LD boost and if you want you can attach a chaplain and a command squad.
The biggest problem you'll have is that 5th is a mech edition. You need rhinos...call them cavalry and things to kill vehicles...PF and Lascannons. I would not take that many Neophytes and if so I'd at least give them BP/CCW.

**Nettik189**

You can buy your drop pods for your troops but we dont have drop pod assault meaning there will be no drop poding on the first turn to cut LOS. What are your goals for this army list? Are you trying to be competitve or just a fun list to play? With 123 models running up the field it would be fun but i dont see it being to competitive, any decent 2500 list could just kit you around the field while making you righteous zeal in the opposite direct with a fast vehicle. Maybe drop a few troops and get some bikes nothing is more deadly than 18 bikes turbo boosting up the field with a 3+ cover save and regular save with 3 PW. Or getting 30 Assault terminators and running em up the field with shields and hammers (TH/SS) nothing says your about to get powned than 30 TH/SS Terminators Running up the field! Also maybe getting a High Marshall for the LDR boost

. I dont see much anti tank in your list aswell you mist get picked off alot

Note: Ahh Akro you ninja'd me!

If you are going for a theme list go for it but i dont see it being competitive, my BT 2500 list would pick you apart but its a shooty list, and my CC list would also do the same (30 Assault Term w/ TH/SS & 3 Vindicators w/ PotMS)

**Commisar Von Humps**

My reasoning behind taking max crusader squad is to avoid 5th edition mech, since many armies, especially DE and Guard, are focused on AT and say i brought this to a tournament, who would expect it? Not to mention, how would they really deal with this? 120 models, half of them power armored, protected with Neophyte bubble wrap, 2 of the mobs are fearless all together thanks to the chaplains and can go anywhere thanks to the rule(extreme zeal or some such?) with their zeal movement.

All on a standard board, i can't even picture fitting that all on my side :p.

On note of the neophytes weapons, i gave them shotguns because they do not benefit from the vow, so why not just take shotguns so they can soften the enemy before the charge?

But now that you mention it, i could cut down one or two of the flamer squads and give them a melta/multimelta and rock in a rhino.

**woodbok**

About those 2 preds. You should change both to destructor with lascannon sponsons. and the fact that you have 60 marines running in the enemy's face is no joke. But 1 problem. At 1750 I have the same amount of marines as you with the berserker hordes, except the vehicles.

**Akroma06**

It would be hard to beat this list, but it would be hard for this list to win. I realize people are tired of the mech in 5th but that is the competitive way to go. So unless your friend knows what your up to and is building a list similar to this I worry. Bikes actually would work better for rhinos. You can take 3 with 2 meltas and they are even more like cavalry. Plus it gives you that much needed anti-tank. Just zoom them up turn one and go to blasting after that.

**Nettik189**

Your average DE army could destroy half your forces in one turn, Orks can out assualt you aswell as Nids. Tau would destroy you from half the table away and IG depending on what army you face either gun line would easily kit you with their vendetas to take away from your righteous zeal and shoot you into the ground. Grey Knights are beastly in assualt and shooting depending what list you face you will have some issues. And your normal Nila SM list with Vulkan would take a toll on your list w/ special rounds. To make a list based on a movie is fun to play but hardly competitive. At 2.5k you reali need to bring a threat to the table. Right now i dont see any you tanks are gone turn 2 the latest then its just Kiting themaround the table until they die or fall back. If you wanna make a CC army with BT try something like this

ECC AAC 140
High Marshal Term Armour, Adamantite Mantle, SS, LC Bionics 185
Assualt Terminators x 10 TH/SS x 9, 1 LC 400
Assualt Terminators x 10 TH/SS x 9, 1 LC 400
Assualt Terminators x 10 TH/SS x 9, 1 LC 400
Crusader Squad x 10 PF, Melta Gun Rhino Xtra Armour 240
Crusader Squad x 10 PF, Melta Gun Rhino Xtra Armour 240
Vindicator PotMS Xtra Armour 165
Vindicator PotMS Xtra Armour 165
Vindicator PotMS Xtra Armour 165

This is my CC army list at 2.5k basicaly you screen your vindicators with ur rhinos the first turn while your terminator run up the field (actualy run you can shoot) Also there is no need putting yours EC in the Rhino put him in a Assault sqaud no one will target him with 9 TH/SS terminators in the squad.

**Commisar Von Humps**

Thats great! Siege Weapons, Cavalry, and the Invincible Knights marching across the field crushing their enemies.

Would it be worth it to cut points somewhere to add furious charge to those Terminators, just to give the lighting claws extra punch?

**Akroma06**

I think the LC are there for wound allocation. Look at the number of TH in the army and think...does this squad need more punch? The biggest gripe I have about Nettik's list is the lack of scorring units, although I think if they are getting shot then your opponent is either about to board wipe you or has some serious target priority issues.

**Commisar Von Humps**

Also, for the record, never deep strike the terminators, right?

**Akroma06**

I guess you could. That is alot of termis to cluster up there, plus your opponent gets a nice turn of shooting with AP1-AP2 weapons and blasts, or he can just move away. The biggest problem with DS is that your opponent can shoot your troops and then deal with the termis later.

So while you can DS them I wouldn't.

**Commisar Von Humps**

Also, Marshal would go with the Terminators, but the Champion, could i toss him in another Terminator squad or have him ride with the Crusaders?

**Nettik189**

Put ur EC with the Terminators, your crusader squads are more just to hold objectives. Not to mention when you assualt with the terminators they will either have to target the EC or the Terminators (they will target the Terminators 9/10 times). The LC are there just to do wound allocations and a bit of a threat when you first assualt. Never DS BT Terminators you are always going to use them as a screen! Also no dont get furious charge its not needed seeing how you are footslogg across the board you want max TH/SS <3 the new rulz for BT making like the SM SS!!

**Commisar Von Humps**

Should i make one of the Crusader squads all have bolters and a heavy weapon and melta gun instead of a powerfist?

**Nettik189**

If you want a CC army then no Range weapons, otherwise try this but its more hybrid.

ECC AAC 140
High Marshal Term Armour, Adamantite Mantle, SS, LC Bionics 185
Assualt Terminators x 10 TH/SS x 9, 1 LC 400
Assualt Terminators x 10 TH/SS x 9, 1 LC 400
Assualt Terminators x 10 TH/SS x 9, 1 LC 400
Crusader Squad x 5 LC 95
Crusader Squad x 5 LC 95
Crusader Squad x 5 LC 95
Landspeeder Typhoon 70
Landspeeder Typhoon 70
Landspeeder Typhoon 70
Vindicator PotMS 160
Vindicator PotMS 160
Vindicator PotMS 160

So this is more your hybrid list shooty and assault. If you want to keep pure CC dont change but if you want a more round list here it is

**Joshua Ruehadan**

Commisar Von Humps wrote:Also, for the record, never deep strike the terminators, right?

Never ever deep strike termies! Period!
I beet GreyKnights while playing as Daemons because my opponent got the bright idea to deep strike half his forces and lost two squads of terminatorsXD

**MFletch**

So I shall now go how you use a drop pod army in BT and why it works.

You reserve everything and try to bring everything on in turn 2.

potms is good as tanks roll on and shoot two guns.
The main thing with squads is to have loads of squads and make sure they have a melta. You can start using techmarines to give the melta signum otherwise you are relying on landing and taking out tanks before they can get back at you.

Turn 2 means that the enemy may have already wasted 2 turns and they will have usually declared their positioning on the board.
This all seems rubbish but actually is not too bad.