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Do I need to actually have 2 Imperial Guardsmen on my big heavy weapons team base or can I have just one?

You are required to have two weapons crew. I usually have one glued to the base with the weapon, and one on a separate base that is clearly shown as being the other crewman. I usually just set him on the bigger weapon base next to the other guy, so that when one of them gets waxed, I can take the single model off. If you glue both down, it makes things difficult because you have to remember how many crewmen you actually have.

Good Idea! I didn't think of that.

I was also (Since I have extra torsos but not legs) going to sick a torso into a Square wall of sand bags you couldn't tell he was missing legs.

like super mario in a tube

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/280663.page

Moving.

Nocturn wrote:You are required to have two weapons crew. I usually have one glued to the base with the weapon, and one on a separate base that is clearly shown as being the other crewman. I usually just set him on the bigger weapon base next to the other guy, so that when one of them gets waxed, I can take the single model off. If you glue both down, it makes things difficult because you have to remember how many crewmen you actually have.

Actually you're not. Its one model with 2W.

yeah you can have as many guys on the base as you fancy, codex states it one model with 2 wounds, it suffers no penalty for losing one of its wounds
however you could risk being beaten to death for modelling for advantage

IT is highly unlikely that it will give you any advantage.

well if the gunner is in cover but theres a big empty spot on the the base where the other model would be you would surely be gaining an advantage

Fairfeldia wrote:well if the gunner is in cover but theres a big empty spot on the the base where the other model would be you would surely be gaining an advantage

Not at all.

If you have the Base crammed with 12 Infantry Models and 1 has a Foot behind Cover, the model(the single Heavy Weapon Team model) is in cover; so not having the Ammo-loader/Spotter on the base has 0 in game effect.

Actually that last part is not true, not having the Loader/Spotter on the Base is of Neutral advatage creating 2 points:

1) There is less target-able surface for your opponent(lacking the surface area of 1 Crouching guardsmen), this can be negated with Standing Gunners(not exactly possible with all guns)

2) There is less Surface for you to claim Cover saves(Basically the opposite of what Fairfeldia said, the Base is beneath overhanging Cover, but the gunner is 100% exposed).

P.S. Commissar_Tiberius; I only ever put 1 trooper model on my HWTs, and I only ever had(back when they were 2 models with 1 base, I still split them but left the room for the second models entire base to be removed from the Large base when 1 died). I have never(and I truely mean never) had anyone have any problem with the single-trooper for my single, 2W HW-trooper.

That said I also field 3 Auto-Auto-Cannons, they are AutoCannons with Vox-packs attached to the back and held aloft on 4 Legs or Hovering, in game I allow for the entire gun to be targeted(I.E. the whole model is "body"), including antennae; I have also never had anyone have a problem with them.

You will find that TFG is rare, and they tend not to last long in any community with 1 or 2 strong personalities to quash them.

Would it be possible to use a Servo Skull as a spotter?

I've found that in fairness it's best to have 2 guardsman on the base. I've glued the gunner and second to the base. I just use a dice marker to show the wounds. I know some players moan about having 1 model on the base as humans only have 1 wound therefore you need 2 models.

brainscan wrote:I've found that in fairness it's best to have 2 guardsman on the base. I've glued the gunner and second to the base. I just use a dice marker to show the wounds. I know some players moan about having 1 model on the base as humans only have 1 wound therefore you need 2 models.

How do you explain Guardsman Marbo then? He has 2W and is human.

Homer

Homer S wrote:

brainscan wrote:I've found that in fairness it's best to have 2 guardsman on the base. I've glued the gunner and second to the base. I just use a dice marker to show the wounds. I know some players moan about having 1 model on the base as humans only have 1 wound therefore you need 2 models.

How do you explain Guardsman Marbo then? He has 2W and is human.

Homer

He's Marbo...that's how...

But yeah, a 2W gunner doesn't seem aloof...either way works

Doesn't matter to me either way, I was just stating how my group used to play. They were kinda picky. And I think it would look awesome to use a servo skull as a spotter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In general though, it's probably best to just have the two models. The box came with two models, the base is designed to fit two models, fluff always uses two models (feeder + gunner). And, it makes those WYSIWYG people happy. Also, the definition of team suggests that you should have more than one model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and if you have just the one model with two wounds, you get screwed over by instant death, and you don't get to fire both lasguns.

Nocturn wrote:Oh, and if you have just the one model with two wounds, you get screwed over by instant death, and you don't get to fire both lasguns.

You're going to lose the whole base to ID whether it has one or two models on it. Putting two models on a single base does not alter the fact that it is still a single model with two wounds.

don_mondo wrote:

Nocturn wrote:Oh, and if you have just the one model with two wounds, you get screwed over by instant death, and you don't get to fire both lasguns.

You're going to lose the whole base to ID whether it has one or two models on it. Putting two models on a single base does not alter the fact that it is still a single model with two wounds.

Don speaks truth, no matter how you model it the rules have it as 1 model and denies the lasgun firing with the Heavy and the whole base eats it to ID because of this.

Also everywhere in the actual rules confirms the idea of the HWT being 1 model, you lose 2 regular troopers to gain the 1 trooper, and HWS are made up of a simple 3 teams(no regular troopers). It is only in the fluff that the teams are 2 troopers, and we all know how Fluff and rules interact(outside of the Grey knights): Fluff =/= Rules.

WYSIWYG is also even more satisfied with only having 1 trooper on the Base: the model represents a single guardsman(or veteran guardsman) with a Heavy weapon of Choice, the fact that said guardsman has 2 Wounds, and 2 Attacks cannot be represented in any discernible way(If you had to add another trooper to represent this then Officers, lord Comissars, Primaris Psykers, etc would have very crowded small bases)

The only rule that comes anywhere near defining the second trooper from the box is the base sizes rule on page 3 of the BRB. it still does not require that the second trooper be put on the base with the gunner(since it is still meaningless extra bitz), but it does, thechnically mean that either the second model cannot be put on any base(as it comes with none), or must also be mounted on a 60mm base(since that is the base that comes in the HWT box, where the model came from).

Gotcha. I guess I was just used to using the old 3rd ed. Hwt's where the lascannon was its own model and you had two guardsmen for it.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Nocturn wrote:You are required to have two weapons crew. I usually have one glued to the base with the weapon, and one on a separate base that is clearly shown as being the other crewman. I usually just set him on the bigger weapon base next to the other guy, so that when one of them gets waxed, I can take the single model off. If you glue both down, it makes things difficult because you have to remember how many crewmen you actually have.

Actually you're not. Its one model with 2W.

This for the love of god this.

I know its hard kiddies but its just a single infantry model with 2 wounds and a bigger base.

So if you put a HW in a normal squad you now have a 9 man squad.

Ive have had IG players insist that the other model on the base can still shot his lasgun....

HW team gets one shot per 60mm base but has two wounds.

The spotter IMO after reading is irrelevant and just there for decor. I could, if i wanted to, chop the spotter to bits use some GS to make it look like he got hit with a salvo paint in the blood and guts and instant IG niceness.

That or some sand bags or something.

Another related question:
Do the gunners need to use the kneeling legs? Or could you use standing legs?
Would this give either side an advantage?

It gives your opponent an easier time as its easier to shoot them. It gies you an easier time as you have greater LOS - less likely that a low wall will block your vision.

I don't think he fits with the standing legs unless you lean the gun forward or raise it up on sandbags or something.

-cgmckenzie

You could put tarantula or other drone/sentry gonne on a 60mm base and it would be WYSIWYG. The rules simple say you replace two guardsmen with a heavy weapon team. What makes up the team is up to the modeller.

The only important aspect is the gun itself.

cgmckenzie wrote:I don't think he fits with the standing legs unless you lean the gun forward or raise it up on sandbags or something.

-cgmckenzie

I ment do something like crouching gunner, standing spotter. This allows you to make double the number of weapons teams.

Yeah it not a problem I know a guy who just put the mortars on a base and the puts 2 normal guardsmen on the base when wants to use them.

Commissar_Tiberius wrote:Would it be possible to use a Servo Skull as a spotter?

Go ahead. There is nothing to stop you, and it'll look pretty cool.

Where do those servo skulls come from?

RaptorsTallon wrote:Where do those servo skulls come from?

I think they're on the Grey Knight Terminator sprue.

Polonius wrote:

RaptorsTallon wrote:Where do those servo skulls come from?

I think they're on the Grey Knight Terminator sprue.

Cool, I might have to buy a box.

SM devastator squad comes with some but they don't fit into to my SM army look and feel so I'm planing on using them as spotters / decor for my CCS / PCS leaders.