Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

HQ:
Company Command Squad
4x Plasma Guns
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[165]

Company Command Squad
4x Meltaguns
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[145]

Elites:
Psyker Battle Squad
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[165]

Troops:
Veteran Squad
3x Plasma Guns
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[170]

Veteran Squad
3x Plasma Guns
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[170]

Veteran Squad
3x Meltaguns
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

Veteran Squad
3x Meltaguns
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

Platoon Command Squad
3x Meltaguns, Flamer
[65]

Infantry Squad
Meltagun
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[115]

Infantry Squad
Meltagun
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[115]

Special Weapons Squad
3x Meltaguns
[65]

Special Weapons Squad
3x Meltaguns
[65]

Fast Attack:
Vendetta
[130]

Vendetta
[130]

Vendetta
[130]

Heavy:
(2) Hydra
Hull Heavy Bolters
[150]

Manticore
Hull Heavy Flamer
[160]

(2) Basilisks
Hull Heavy Flamers
[250]

So, with Semi-Finals fast approaching, I was working on a list to deal with the new missions, which already seem to favor Guard anyhow. The Melta Vets and CCS can roll forward fast and power-slide as needed, with the option of Orders from the CCS to help against cover and/or to twin-link. The Plasma Vets and CCS can hang back a bit and roll up to hit the stuff that is forced out of their transports. The PBS does its nasty tricks, which have proven invaluable lately.

The PCS and SWS all carry Melta, which seems more threatening than their original Flamer loadouts I ran at Prelims. While I lose a bit of responsive anti-Horde, this wound up being all that useful. Instead, having more anti-tank on the field seems better, as well as the same late-game turbo-boosting options, as all those squads ride in the Vendettas. The basic squads have lost their Autocannons, because I noticed I kept them too mobile to benefit. So, now they are just there to bulk out my scoring unit numbers, especially for mission two.

The Vendettas, as well as being loaded with scoring units, are highly mobile and deadly. For the first mission, I put my messenger in there and thanks to Dawn of War, I can put it out on the back edge and then turbo-boost my first turn for a free 500VP. As long as I kill their messenger before they get to my area, I will be halfway to a Massacre. The Hydras are my answer to enemy skimmers trying to do the same thing, as well as being general anti-light armor, as always. The Bassies have served me well thus far - hammering MEQ from afar, whereas Medusa just haven't been worthwhile for me. Its the ranged firepower I need, as the close-range stuff I have covered pretty well. This is also why I have the Manticore - which will be anti-heavy armor at range.

Any thoughts? Ideas? Anything I am missing before I get in a few test games? How does this compare to my prior build? Better? Worse?

Anything? Anyone?

I take it the special weapons squads are going in the vendettas? But why? In my eyes, vendettas should be used as a backfield fire platforms, not delivery systems.

They are both, which is why I love flexible units. They carry a scoring unit that can also be threatening if needed. I used to run them with Flamers, but I think Meltas might be better. Still debating between this new list and my old one.

In objective games there is almost always 1 objective deep in enemy deployment you will struggle to get to, so taking scoring units in the vendetta's is a fairly good idea, can also be used well against horde armies, a suicidal infrantry squad or w/e it is for guard, packed out with as much flamers as possible, can make a mess of nids or orks, with the vendetta destroying the transport, them flaming the insides, and the manticore obliterating anything left.

Also if i were you i would drop the basilisks, and get another 2 manticores, drop the hull heavy bolters on hydra's as well etc and hull flamer on manticore if struggling for points

Ok. Say something.

I don't like the basilisks. Replace them.

I said something.

Basilisks have won me games with their range - while the only logical replacement of Medusas just never do what I need. Too short-ranged.

I might go back to my original list - it had Flamer toting PCS and SWS in each Vendetta, instead of Meltaguns. Just not sure what would be more useful.

The Hull Heavy Bolters come into play sometimes - doesn't hurt to have them. 8 TL S7 and 6 S5 shots can do some damage at a better range than the flamers - which I have in abundance otherwise.

Any more ideas? Just trying to make sure I have ironed out any and all possible kinks before I go to Semi-Finals.

Basilisk has one template, thats a whole turn of shooting with that gone because it just scattered away.
Manticore has a potential 3, on average thats one guaranteed hit, at a higher strength, meaning it can obliterate transports.

This is what you do, template one, you hit transport and it dies, template two hits the insides, template 3 hits the insides, one turn of shooting and you have killed a hell of a lot And 3 of this? Against swarm armies its just a faceroll, while the basilisk is AP3 for marines, the 3x template makes up for that, on average doing the same amount of wounds unsaved.

You dont want your hydra's getting in heavy bolter range, keep them at the edge of the board in a distant corner where they're 72 inch range dominates their line of sight, like this?

...............B A S T I O N
Hydra Manticore Manticore Manticore Hydra

two manticores are completely obscured, against flankers they have 4+ cover save, they dont need LoS to fire, so the hydra's blocking them in picks stuff off, behind a terrain piece in the opposite corner will take at least 3 turns for a transport to get there (no room to deep strike....) and outflankers wont have the room to come onto the table edge, there will still be a wall of hydra.

I play orks, ive seen it all before, the leman russes anhillate the transports with the help of the vendetta's, manticore's blow the insides to smithereens, in turn 2 i was dead against this army, 3 battlewagons destroyed, its inards destroyer, one vendetta troop w/e jumped out and flamed my loota's to death, and the chimera melta/plasma finished anything left standing. LEAFBLOWERRRR

The Melta Vets and CCS can roll forward fast and power-slide as needed, with the option of Orders from the CCS to help against cover and/or to twin-link.

Er... how are you going to give Orders to units in vehicles?

you cant take 3 manticores and 2 hydras, thats 4 heavy choices

Damn this army looks just like the guard that got 2nd place in our area... I almost expected to see a From: WA on your profile...

As for the army... ITs good... pretty easy to copy and paste from everyone else...

BlkTom wrote:

The Melta Vets and CCS can roll forward fast and power-slide as needed, with the option of Orders from the CCS to help against cover and/or to twin-link.

Er... how are you going to give Orders to units in vehicles?

Power-sliding means I hop out. Thus, orders.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

OneMeanDuck wrote:Damn this army looks just like the guard that got 2nd place in our area... I almost expected to see a From: WA on your profile...

As for the army... ITs good... pretty easy to copy and paste from everyone else...

Nope, I got first. As for copy and paste - funny. I spend a lot prime evaluating units and playtesting builds, not just netisting. I have been playing and modifying my Guard army for my metagame for years, so I do not appreciate the insinuation that I copy anyone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Orkaswampa - the Manticore doesn't work that way. All the blasts are resolved at the same time like any other weapon. I can hit a vehicle with the template, but not the guys inside with the same barrage. Also, as said, that is too many heavy choices and a squadron must be 4" for coherency, so that is too spread out.

em_en_oh_pee wrote:Basilisks have won me games with their range - while the only logical replacement of Medusas just never do what I need. Too short-ranged.

Umm...

I'm just starting to get my feet wet again, but don't bastion breechers increase the range to 48" and ap1?

I don't know why that is 'too short ranged'?

And I don't know if you have enough ap2 (you probably do) to handle 50 terminators. I would think that the medusas would help with that.

But BB shells are a small blast and you then can't fire the large blasts anymore. Also, who runs 50 terminators? All that plasma and Melta should so it, but 3++ gives me headaches.

em_en_oh_pee wrote:But BB shells are a small blast and you then can't fire the large blasts anymore. Also, who runs 50 terminators? All that plasma and Melta should so it, but 3++ gives me headaches.

GK termie armies. No worries about 3++. I would run bastions, switch all the vet squads to plasma.

Do you really see that many melta 'quality' targets nowadays anyways? You would still have 3 'melta squads' and one CCS with melta. That and the bastions should do you just fine.

Unless of course, you have already play tested this. Then ignore what I'm saying.

Considering I at 'Ard Boyz Prelims I saw two lists with Land Raiders, at a recent Semi-Finals Warm-Up I saw triple Land Raiders, and so on. I think the Melta and Plasma numbers are right, generally. Though I have in this list far more Melta than I need and may revert to the Flamer squads, for a more open metagame.

The BB Medusa just can't reach across a board and sweep MEQ off their objectives, as I do with the Bassies. If they aren't in cover, they aren't getting a save. It has won me several games and I just can't imagine the small BB blast will do enough hitting 1-2 models, versus hitting 3-4 models with the Bassie, which also combos well with Weaken Resolve for pinning any units that take wounds.

Well I wouldn't switch to flamers, I think you are ok if you think you are ok. I just think you have way to much melta.

And I still don't like bassy's.

My suggestion is that one of the SWS squads should be trip flamers...gets units hiding in cover...lootas...etc....maybe late game when that vendetta rolls up to contests objective the flamers jump out and flame the hiding units and they run away....win win....otherwise the list is solid...you should do well...good luck to ya...

I like the list, but I do have a couple points.

1) PBS are very good at what they do. I feel you need to field at least 2, and I’ll tell you why.

They are nearly an instant win on death star armies, but you need them to work. When you loose that chance to run TWC or nob bikes off the table due to a perils, your going to be kicking yourself.

They are also one of the best meq in the codex, and since razor spam is one of the roughest lists for mech IG, they give you a big advantage.

One more point on the PBS before I move on, I would recommend only running them eight man deep, it will save you points and keep them just as effective. At what they do best.

2) where are you advisers, MofF and the astropath, for 6 points you have the best anti alpha strike and anti DS def in the codex. And it prevents your opponents from holding full reserves to avoid your first round of shooting. Just my opinion, but the astropath allowed me to win playing another IG mech list first round as player two. And table my opponent game 3. The options he gives are well worth the points.

3) I’m not a huge fan of the platoons in a mech list, but by no means am I saying don’t play them. I love the drop and pop tactic, out of the back of chimeras or vendettas. But as with most good tactics, they don’t work as well with stiffer competition. Vendettas don’t like meltaguns, and to drop those SWS and PCS in there to use there big tank killers you will be putting your birds in harms way. I know this is probably not the first time you’ve heard this. But when your looking down field at 9 las/plas and 15 rocket toting long fangs your going to need those las burning hot every round.

You could use them to out flank and be far more effective, but you would need the astropath for that.

I would consider placing and AC in the IS. There cheep and make them a bit more effective then a single meltagun. But this is really just one way to play them. Any what you look at them the IS is your week link in this list, and there doesn’t seem to be an easy way around it with out retooling the build.

4) vendettas rock, manticores rock. Hydras (even if I don’t like them) rock. But I don’t know if I’m sold on the basilisks ether. No one is going to tell you that the earth shaker is a poor weapon, but where is it fitting in the list. There used to brake and pin meq, but the medusa does it better, and is more effective on armor and heavy troops. I feel the medusa wins hands down.

As for the different shooting styles for the two artillery is inconsequential. Most shots fired by the bassys are going to be direct shots. But most of the IG artillery has better numbers while firing direct (with some situations needing indirect fire, but I wont get in to that here). And that the short range for the medusa is easily defeated by good deployment. And where as the key kill zone for IG is at 36in it fits well in most IG players comfort zone.

I feel the medusa is far superior to the bassy, but I’m comfortable with having it up by my PBS and plasma vets. But if your not the bassy is a good 2ed option.

As I said all in all it’s a solid list, as I keep eluding to I feel you my have some problems with BA/SW razor spams.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And to jump in to the BB Medusa debate. A manticore will wreck a land raider just as fast as at BB, and its far more versatile. And in my experience if your playing an opponent with a LR spam, your mech IG has already won.

Back at m.n.o.p, I think your good on flamers, you have a fine array of heavy flamers to handle all those horde.

Here is an alternative I am debating on testing:

HQ:
Company Command Squad
4x Meltaguns
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[145]

Company Command Squad
4x Plasma Guns, Astropath
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[195]

Elites:
(8) Psyker Battle Squad
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

Troops:
Veteran Squad
3x Meltaguns
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

Veteran Squad
3x Meltaguns
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

Veteran Squad
3x Meltaguns
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[155]

Veteran Squad
3x Plasma Guns
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[170]

Platoon Command Squad
4x Flamers
[50]

Infantry Squad
Meltagun, Autocannon
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[125]

Infantry Squad
Meltagun, Autocannon
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser
[125]

Special Weapons Squad
3x Flamers
[50]

Special Weapons Squad
3x Flamers
[50]

Fast Attack:
Vendetta (PCS)
[130]

Vendetta (SWS)
[130]

Vendetta (SWS)
[130]

Heavy:
(2) Hydra
Hull Heavy Bolters
[150]

Manticore
Hull Heavy Flamer
[160]

(2) Medusa
Hull Heavy Flamers
[270]

[2500]

I think that Basilisks work in my smaller metagame, but against a more broad showing at Semi-Finals, I think the Medusa might do what I need. Also, it can help mitigate my Deathwing weakness a bit, as well as various Deathstar Terminator units. I don't use the Pinning from the Bassies as often as just the casualties anyhow, so the Medusa will do that fine.

Thoughts?

Medusa should be better than them other turd cannons. They ruined them in the current codex with no direct fire :/

I will private message you my list. I dont wanna post it due to in the past of running up to tailored list in the next round. I run a similar list but my strategy is slightly different. Pm coming.

Truffle wrote:Medusa should be better than them other turd cannons. They ruined them in the current codex with no direct fire :/

...except the Basilisks can shoot directly, so they are pretty stellar. Just think the AP2 S10 will be better.

I agree that the Medusa is better, specially in a squad.

Purchasing some Medusa cannons tomorrow and I hope to get a few games in. Any more ideas?

em_en_oh_pee wrote:Purchasing some Medusa cannons tomorrow and I hope to get a few games in. Any more ideas?

ya, avoid artillery batteries. There is so much more available for the points. Armor 12 open topped doesnt take much!

What? That is counter to what I have discovered in my years of playtesting. Honestly, anything under 2000pt and the Russ can do well, but at 2000pt and up, it suffers to cost and the abundance of answers, while artillery is cheaper and overall more effective when screened properly.

Well, I ordered my MaxMini Siege Guns today, so I should have them pretty soon and with hopes, I will have a gun carriage that can swap between those and the Earthshaker. Sadly, my LGS has moved further away, which combined with schedule issues, means I will be lucky to get games in before Semi-Finals.