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Hi Dakka.

So I am trying to decide exactly how to kit out my assault terminators. I plan on running 7 assault terminators with a librarian with termi armor in a LRC.

I want this squad to steal objectives from hard to kill units like space marines or terminators. If they are light infantry the LRC should be able to gun them down. I wont run pure TH/SS as that just seems to vulnerable to being tied up by orks forever and a day in the event that i have to assault orks.

Anyways, my current thoughts were to run 4 TC termies, and 3 TH/SS termies. Definitely need the TH to deal with walkers and the SS to deal with AP 1 and 2 wounds that i could allocate onto them.

The librarian I want to run with them will have a storm bolter.

The decision I have to make on the librarian is what spells to use. I definitely want GOI in the event that the LRC is unable to get the terminators to their destination or to get them out of severe trouble or whatever movement dictates.

The second spell choice seems harder.

Might of the ancients is my top choice right now as it would give more anti-walker / armor. Overall it complements being in the assault squad quite well.

The Avenger is another interesting choice. It would be like having a LRR and LRC all at once in a way. My fear with using it before an assault is breaking their morale and causing them to run (especially space marines that can auto regroup in the next turn). This could also help against hoards of foes.

Null Zone also has its circumstantial uses. Against other SS, Daemons, or other random invuln save enemies this could be devastating.

Force Dome also seems useful for having that many TC guys. I don't really like this option, just seems quite passive and defensive.

Smite doesn't seem very effective, Machine curse feels wasted, and quickening doesn't seem to fit in.

Vortex of doom is way to risky to run with this expensive of a unit accompanying the librarian.

In summation, I want Dakka's input on what ratio of TCs to TH/SS to use and what 2 psychic powers to use. I have my ides but I want to see what Dakka has to say! If you made it this far, you are a very patient ready

Null zone lets you break even elite CC units with relative ease. I'd say go for that. As a side note, you probably would want your Libby to have a SS so that he doesn't go squish when someone hits him.

What's your opinion on Terminator Gear? What ratio do you like?

Force Dome grants a 5++ save, that is something that your termies already have (or even better).

The obvious choice is NullZone. Your termies will deal with though units and as such they will (almost) always have an inv save.

Personally I find GoI rather lackluster. Its not that easy to deep strike an 8 terminator large blob.

My go to powers are Null Zone and Avenger. However my Libby usually stays in the LR to extend the range of Null Zone and the Hood

Null Zone is a must have for a librarian power.

Avenger is also good because it can allow a librarian to bully small 5 man power armor squads in late game. You just have to watch out for powerfists.

I'll also agree that a storm shield is a must so you have a fighting chance when you get stuck in an assault you don't want to be in.

The librarian I want to run with them will have a storm bolter.

I'd give him a storm shield for increased survivability.

So I am trying to decide exactly how to kit out my assault terminators. I plan on running 7 assault terminators with a librarian with termi armor in a LRC.

Excellent idea thus far.

I want this squad to steal objectives from hard to kill units like space marines or terminators. If they are light infantry the LRC should be able to gun them down. I wont run pure TH/SS as that just seems to vulnerable to being tied up by orks forever and a day in the event that i have to assault orks.

Also excellent plan, however, pure TH/SS` problem is not getting tied up by orks forever. You are looking at the difference of, maximum, seven total attacks. Attacks that wound on a 2+ against almost anything in the game rather than rerolling S4. The problem with TH/SS is that almost everything swings before you, and while your odds are good with 2+/3++ of lasting that long...there are days. This is not really helped by lightning claws that often (With orks actually being one of a very small group of remotely threatening CC units that isn't also I4.) because...well...a CC unit without at least I3+FC is just not that common. Trading durability for striking FIRST is a viable idea. Trading durability for striking simul is at best, insurance.

TL;DR If I took anything but 100% TH/SS, it would only be one or two TLCs to help the librarian deal with ICs and similar, particularly in a squad that size where a bad save or two doesn't mean quite as much. Certainly over half would be equipped with TH/SS.

I definitely want GOI in the event that the LRC is unable to get the terminators to their destination or to get them out of severe trouble or whatever movement dictates.

While I have had luck with GOI and sternguard, It's a definite increase in difficulty pulling it off with 8 terminators who realistically need to wind up within 6 inches this turn. (Because lets face it, the only shooting you are going to get is from the librarian IF he has a gun or is an epistolary, and the opponent is going to back off as far as possible when you pull this move. It's very easy from here to minimize the threat an AT squad poses by most armies, there is a reason why people take ATs with LRs, Shrike, or don't bother.)

Null zone would be my hands down pick. Not only for sitting in the LR and using its hull to increase the size of the bubble, but because it allows YOUR deathstar, to take on an opposing deathstar...and win. I have ran into very few situations where the enemy army did not have SOMETHING that this spell did not kneecap.

Avenger or vortex would be my other pick. Might is less than inspiring on a 2A model without preferred enemy and without a second CCW (Doubly so in a unit full of thunderhammers, which should be taking out any high T and AV targets with gusto) and while smite is great against terminators, it lacks real utility against anything else. Avenger however, is godlike against any exposed infantry, and vortex allows for something to shoot at the transport OR exposed infantry. Now, for the downsides:

Avenger may break a squad, yes. Ultramarines will immediately go to ground, and inevitably fail their morale check when they take 25% casualties, and attempt to regroup next turn. Don't allow them the opportunity. Get a crappy land speeder with its guns blown off, or a rhino with nothing else to do, or one of your own tac squads, and escort him off the board. He still cannot regroup within 6 inches of an enemy unit.

Vortex may also perils and slap you with a demolisher cannon round, right on your head. This requires you to perils however, and this is anecdotal...but I have taken a -lot- of psychic tests, and I don't remember hitting perils very often. Quite frankly, with a TH/SS squad, even if you did you have the best chance of having a combat viable unit afterwards here than anywhere else in the codex. Terminator librarians are also the only kind that can fling this at someone and still assault afterwards.

Terminators + LRC is always a good plan, just the decision to be made if you want some psychic shooting and support from the librarian...or if you want a CC beatstick. If you want a CC beatstick you should probably run a TDA chaplain or Cassius.

I run this unit regularly. A very important consideration is the point size of the game. I play 1500 normally, and found the full 7+libby to be too expensive to run at 1500. If you are playing over 1500, it might work.

I run a unit of 4 TH and 1 LC model. That way, on the assault I have 7 attacks to swing with @ I4 with still tons of 2+/3++ saves available. My 7 model strong unit was 5TH and 2 LC. You want more TH than LC because against T5+, the TH wounds more than the LC and is more durable. Against T4 or under, the TH can instant death which is important for Nobs or (less commonly) Tyranid Warriors.

This unit will face problems against 2 types of enemies. Those that tend to have invulnerable saves, and hordes. As a support character, it makes sense to have your librarian act as insurance in these 2 instances by bringing Nullzone and Avenger.

This unit will be incredibly tough to face. It will really only get shut down by mass firepower. Be carefull not to waste the unit assaulting bait lest you be left in the open to the reprisal of all the shooting of the enemy - always try to multiassault with a bit terminator unit like this.

This is for 2k+ points only. At 1500 I would never run this. Terminators are just too expensive and need a LR to be effective.

The dice gods are not known to be my friend, I trust that they will betray me at the most embarrassing possible time.

Anyways, I was thinking that this squad would be used against units with invuln saves and the LRC would put the hurt on any hoards they come across.

The main reason I think vortex isn't a great choice is that it is heavy. The potential of losing the entire unit is only another negative aspect of it.

After all the input I think I will give Null Zone, Avenger a try.


What ratio of TC to TH/SS should I run? It will be a mixed squad as TC look awesome, and the extra attacks and initiative seem invaluable.

My current thought was 4 thunder claws and 3 thunder hammers.

If the thunder claws can take out a power fist or another thunder hammer wielding foe it seems well worth it to help prevent casualties.

Thanks Dakka!

Vortex being heavy is a moot point, TDA gives the Librarian relentless.

Ohoh I wasn't aware of that. Thank you!

What ratio of TC to TH/SS should I run? It will be a mixed squad as TC look awesome, and the extra attacks and initiative seem invaluable.

My current thought was 4 thunder claws and 3 thunder hammers.

If the thunder claws can take out a power fist or another thunder hammer wielding foe it seems well worth it to help prevent casualties.

It will be hard to take out a pf with a few thunder claws since the pf wielding guy is usually wounded last. My Assault Termie unit has th/ss only.

It's what I'm loading up for mine.
5-7 man Assault Term squad, with 2-3 LC and the rest with TH/SS.
Librarian with SS with Avenger and Null Zone.

I don't have any LRs, nor drop pods, so it's deep strike only.