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So I'm looking through the threads for CSM trying to decide which troop choices I should field for my standard 2k army. I've purchased at least one specialized squad (plagues/1k sons/zerkers/noise) and am trying to decide which combination would work best againt most armies. I've come up with my own pros and cons for each, but I would like some experienced advice to help me along with my decision and point out any great things or short falls I've over looked. I would like to thank you all ahead of time

Plague Marines: The bread and butter to most CSM so I notice.

Pros: FnP and 2 special weapons for a squad of 5, need I say more? I love that these guys can be decked out to be decent againt infantry or vehicles and are very sturdy while at range. I see most people play them by sitting them on a CP and waiting for turn 5.

Cons: While FnP is solid while at range, I see its short coming against melee squads utilizing PW. Does that make them a dealbreaker? No. It just makes them delicate against anyone willing to assault them.

1k Sons: I won't lie, I love their fluff...so if this sounds a little one sided feel free to smack me down a notch.

Pros: AP 3 bolters. I love these against SM and GK (especially purifiers). I'm confident in other squads killing the rhino/razorback of most assault squads and forcing some footslogging for the Sons to really shine. They are extremely hardy as well with the 4+ invul that allows them to even put up a fight if the squad does make it to melee.

Cons: Expensive points wise. Sorcerer at 60 almost makes me drop them everytime I review my list. Really no AT. I like BoC for lighter vehicles (and it's 24" range), but that still leaves the rest of the Sons standing around waiting for the next turn to shoot.

Khorne Berzerker: Who doesn't enjoy yelling 'Blood for the Blood God' after a victory?

Pros: Very fun melee unit. WS 5, Furious Charge, and an extra attack for that first turn of the assault I ruin a lot of people's days. I really dig these guys against most squads because I hop out of a rhino or LR and tangle up with as many ranged units as I can and smack them in the face. I wish a couple more could take PW though...

Cons: Outside of the obvious "no ranged" assessment I've been a little upset with them when I encounter GK with their I 6 power weapons. I'll bump into an equal sized GKSS and lose far too many zerkers on a turn in which I assaulted. DE/Eldar are much the same and when you look at total armies that's a decent percentage of players to deal with.

Noise Marines: Words can never hurt me...unless you're these guys.

Pros: I first picked these up because I read the Horus Heresy and thought the "pursuit of perfection" was pretty cool. I enjoy their sonic weapons since they always get atleast 2 shots that can become 3 when sitting on CP (which is how I use them). I use the Blastmaster and Doom Siren on and off...I'm still trying to justify their points.

Cons: If you don't take the Blastmaster you have no AT at all, and even if you do take it you're still shooting a blast. I like the Doom Siren and I 5 for the possible melee scraps they might get in, but it seems when my opponent sees my list with a PW/Doom Siren and they just roll a vehicle at them and slowly mulch them down.

Generic CSM: When I don't see Plague Marines I usually see these fellows filling the role.

Pros: Cheap. They are atleast 5 points cheaper then the specialized marines. 2 special weapons so they are similar to Plagues, except one can be a heavy weapon. Variable icon will allow you to decide which best fills your play style so you can get the most bang for your buck.

Cons: Jack of all trades, master of none. They can fill a lot of roles, but they can be out-shot or out-fought by any specialized marine. This makes me hesitant to take them many times because when I field them I always tell myself that they won't be play makers (killing wise, obviously they are the backbone to CPs) when it comes down to the fight. Their job is to stay alive and capture things or soften up some squads. I really feel like I'm missing something when I play these guys. I'll get into shoot outs with other squads and sometimes get a KP, but more often then not we both die at the same rate and it seems to come down to if I'm able to utilize cover or run away in my Rhino before it's too late.

Once again, thanks in advance for any advice.

I think you've pretty much covered everything to be honest, and all experienced players can really offer is there own experiences.
At the moment, i'm using one squad of Zerkers with Abaddon in a Land Raider, and 2-3 squads of 5 Plagues. I also have a list with 4 squads of plagues and no Zerkers/Abaddon.

I'm finding Plagues a bit lackluster in most games to be honest, if you use them aggressively trying to pop tanks with the Meltas (which I need to do in my Abaddon list, as i tend to use 2 Vindicators, so need the extra anti-tank) they might manage to blow up a tank, but then tend to die as most squads have PW. And my army tends to be too small to use them defensively, because just don't seem to get enough models, even when not using Abaddon in a Land Raider, against a lot of armies. Really i want to use a squad of 7, with a PF. Its better in combat, a bit bigiger and just seems better, but thats a lot of points. And i'm not confidant in them being all that wonderful.

Zerkers I like, unless you get in a situation when they enemy is always going to have a higher I value, like Grey Knights, Genestealers and Slaanesh deamons, they tend to kill what they go after. I think they are more reliable at killing than any other Chaos troop choice, maybe any other Chaos choice full stop (at least point wise anyway). But to get the best out of them, you need a 240 point land raider (Deamonic possession is needed i think). Making them very expensive, and they aren't always going to last the whole battle to capture objectives, since your throwing them into the enemy line.

I personally don't like 1K sons all that much. The look and fluff is great, and in theory so it AP3 bolters, but there just doesn't seem to be many Marines around nowadays, its all mechanised or horde who only have 5/6+ save anyway. Or terminators. So against Orks/Guard/guants/Stealers your wasting 8 points (above a CSM) to get slow and purposeful, AP3 and an inv save, none of which helps you in that situation. and they have little/no anti-tank potential, 1 less attack (no CCW/BP combo every other troop choice has in CSM codex) I would only use 1K sons in a themed fluffy army, fully designed for fluff and aesthetic reasons, and would not be expected to perform all that well.

Noise Marines are decent, you can either use that I5 and go combat orientated, or buy Sonic blasters and go shooty. Neither i don't think are worth it points wise in most situations. Zerkers are more killy, higher strength, more attacks on the charge. And shooty noise Marines, cost 10 points more than a CSM, for an extra shot or two. Against Horde that's worth it but not so sure its effective enough in most other situations.

CSM are good, they are cheapest option, can perform multiple roles etc etc.

I am personally going to stick with my Zerker/Plague combo at the moment, it kind of works. It could be better, probably my play style/tactics that let me down. CSM are very close to being included in my list, but I just don't quite think they work as well as Plagues or Zerkers. Basically i think you need to complement your play style, tactics, and know what kind of armies your facing, if your never going to face horde, never even think about taking Noise Marines etc etc.

Not sure if i actually helped, or just wrote a load of rubbish there

Well, I play EC and have good experience with Noise Marines. Generally, I field two squads in Rhinos:
6 to 8 NM incl. AC w/ doom siren, power weapn, Rhino.
These units synergize well with (dual) lash, since the doom siren is an MEQ killer - one of the best shooting weapons in the game.
Moreover, I generally field a third troop unit. The choices are
5 NM w/ blastmaster, Rhino,
8 to 10 NM w/ sonic blaster, Rhino,
10 CSM w/ melta(x2), Rhino.
Rhinos have havoc launcher or combi-weapon.

I use Noise Marines and standard mostly, partially because I love their fluff, partially because I just wanted to aviod the stereotypical Berzerker/Plague aspect of Chaos armies and mostly because that Blastmaster is the one of the only lucky things in my entire army.

It's immobilised a Land Raider, killed two assassins, and Shadowsun on two occasions. Also, while staying still, the squad gets 18 Sonic Blaster shots, enough to decimate most non-vehicle opposition. Then again, they've never been attacked be a vehicle since I try to Lash infantry towards them.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, I play EC and have good experience with Noise Marines. Generally, I field two squads in Rhinos:
6 to 8 NM incl. AC w/ doom siren, power weapn, Rhino.
These units synergize well with (dual) lash, since the doom siren is an MEQ killer - one of the best shooting weapons in the game.
Moreover, I generally field a third troop unit. The choices are
5 NM w/ blastmaster, Rhino,
8 to 10 NM w/ sonic blaster, Rhino,
10 CSM w/ melta(x2), Rhino.
Rhinos have havoc launcher or combi-weapon.

Sounds interesting, if it works i might try it out at some point. I like Noise Marines, and would like a Slaanesh themed addition to my mostly Nurgle Chaos army.

I like 5 man noise marines, champ with doom siren and power weapon, rhino. Either those, or 5 man plagues with 2 meltas, rhino. But a big squad of berserkers can be good.

rodgers37 wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Well, I play EC and have good experience with Noise Marines. Generally, I field two squads in Rhinos:
6 to 8 NM incl. AC w/ doom siren, power weapn, Rhino.
These units synergize well with (dual) lash, since the doom siren is an MEQ killer - one of the best shooting weapons in the game.
Moreover, I generally field a third troop unit. The choices are
5 NM w/ blastmaster, Rhino,
8 to 10 NM w/ sonic blaster, Rhino,
10 CSM w/ melta(x2), Rhino.
Rhinos have havoc launcher or combi-weapon.

Sounds interesting, if it works i might try it out at some point. I like Noise Marines, and would like a Slaanesh themed addition to my mostly Nurgle Chaos army.

Here the two Rhino squads (with doom siren) work in tandem approaching the enemy by frog leaping, while the 3rd unit stays back holding an objective if necessary.

I like to field at least one of each cult troop except for Noise Marines, as they don't fit well with the rest of my army, and therefore I don't have much experience with them either.

I would recommend, if you do decide on taking KSons, running them in groups of 9 and giving them a Chaos Sorceror of Tzeentch to give the group grenades that they so sorely lack, and in case the aspiring sorc dies you still have the HQ sorc to make up for it. I wouldn't bother with Bolt of Change, go with Warptime/Doombolt for more infantry killy. Team them up with either an Oblit unit or AT unit (PM, Bikers, Raptors, Chosen, ML Dread(s), CSM, or DP) while they ride in a Rhino so as soon as their enemy is thrown out of their vehicle you can unload your KSons and start harvesting at long range. AP3 is amazing, but what makes them even more amazing, in my personal opinion, is that they can move and shoot 24 inches a turn with BS4, THAT is what makes them worth it to me, the AP bonus is icing on the cake.

Zerkers are good, but don't send them alone, tag them with a DP or a unit that can effectively pop AT in case a stray walker comes along or your target happens to be hiding in a sardine can.

Plague Marines, from my experience, tend to work as either objective holders, or as axillary for other units. When used as fire support for other units like Zerkers or KSons (generally as AT with Meltas or Plasmas), the opponent tends to be more concerned with the infantry killing capabilities of the latter than the former and will ignore the PM with the mentality that they will be harder to kill anyhow, which ends up working in their survival factor even more.

I only really use CSM to fill out an army list that is solid with other troop options, to fill in as a cheap 10 man unit with special weapons of some sort, usually either dual flamers or dual meltaguns.

You probably already knew this, but Rhinos, Rhinos, RHINOS! Our codex gets some of the least expensive Rhinos WH40k has to offer, and the more you have the better. Nothing more fun than watching a Tau player squirm as they frantically do whatever they can to take out at least one Rhino encroaching in on them, which is usually all they end up destroying before you are close enough to start bullying him with your troops.

I really appreciate all of the advice. Everyone has made some very great points and I like to hear how you each utlize the squads to your own benefit. It will definitely help me improve my own play style a great deal. Once again, thank you very much.

I play slaanesh, so most of my experiance is with noise marines.

Doom Siren is aweinspiring, if someone makes a slight mistake at positioning you can pretty much wipe out the entire unit - If they dont make mistakes, fzorgle them into position then melt the face!

My Blastmaster has never made its points back :( but that is more my cack rolling than anything else.

However, NM suffer from being part shooty and part fighty (+1in) and are weaker for it.

Zerkers are astoundingly dangerous, absolutely slaughter on the charge and Nurgle are the best objective holders we have imho - 1k marines are just too expensive for what they do.

Well, NM are very rewarding to play (if played successfullly). They are a bit unusual as everybody would expect Berzerkers and Plague Marines. Both are a no-no for me.

Berzerkers are great, but if you have too many and run into a CC unit they cant handle. Like FNP paladins with Halbers.

The trick is finding the balance between the cult troops and the rolls they fulfill.

I typically take 2 units of 8 Berzerkers. These guys are so good at killing so much of whats out there that they really add a lot to what your army can deal with.

Besides that, I have used small squads of noise marines with Blasmasters, small squads of Chaos Marines to good effect as welll.

But, typically when using berzerkers I tend to take plague marines to complement them. Their resilience and access to special weapons works really well in conjunction with Berzerkers.

So, long story short, I think plague marines and Berzerkers are the way to go.

Well, I second extrenm here. Berzerkers and Plague Marines complement each other very well as they fulfill different roles (hammer vs. anvil).

Plagues are goregous, but depend on enemy army facing. GK's? Leave em at home, large units of CSM's to put them down with weight of fire.

However having my Squad of 7 plagues with 2 plasma guns walk in the middle of a field, shrugging off over 100 deff gun shots and even 40 burna templates was glorious.
Simply glorious.

Generic CSM are good for having melta guns, Plague Marines are obviously good at holding objectives, everything else is pretty "eh" in a serious environment, with Berzerkers being slightly better.