Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi all! I am looking at overhauling my IG list for the first time in a while; for the last year or so, I've pretty much been playing a full mech army. I'm looking at moving to a more hybrid-style army that will incorporate a good-sized power blob. Here is what I came up with:

HQ - CCS, Plasma Pistol, 4 Plasma guns, Chimera w/HF: 175

T1 - Veteran Squad, 3 Melta guns, Chimera w/HF: 155

T2 - Veteran Squad, 3 Melta guns, Chimera w/HF: 155

T3 - Infantry Platoon: 630
--PCS: 4 Flamers, Chimera w/HF
--Infantry Squad: Melta gun, Power Weaopn, Commissar w/Power Weapon
--Infantry Squad: Melta gun, Power Weapon
--Infantry Squad: Plasma gun, Power Weapon
--Infantry Squad: Plasma gun, Power Weapon
--Heavy Weapons Squad: 2 Autocannons, 1 HB
--Heavy Weapons Squad: 3 Lascannons

FA1 - Devildog w/MM: 135

FA2 - Hellhound w/MM: 145

FA3 - Scout Sentinenel Squadron, 3 Sentinals w/HK missiles, 2 AC and 1 ML: 145

HS1 - LRBT w/HF: 150

HS2 - LRBT w/HF: 150

HS3 - Manticore w/HF: 160

Total: 2000

So, here is my thinking: The powerblob will serve as a bubble wrap for the LRBT's and Manticore, which will in turn focus on shooting the most dangerous opponents off the table. The manticore will do its standard anti-horde and anti-heavy armor act, while the Russes will provide some nice anti-MEQ firepower and/or take on light to medium armor. The blob also has a couple of melta and plasma guns to provide a threat to heavy infantry and vehicles, although these will mainly be the responsibility of the mounted veterans. In the mean time, the HWTs will be used to camp out on back field objectives, and will contribute their long-range firepower to targets of opportunity. I mainy envision the CCS as supporting the HWTs with orders, and providing anti-heavy infantry fire to take on outflanking, deepstriking, and infiltrating units. On the fast attack side, the Hellhound gives me the ability to flush out enemies in cover (backed up by the PCS), the Devildog provides me with some good midrange anti-tank, and the Scout Sentinels will provide disruption in my opponent's backfield, either through outflanking or deploying on the table and using their scout move. What do you guys think?

Hey, this list ain't bad, but I wouldn't really bother with the Sentinels, unfortunately as I like them too. I think a Vendetta would do better, with it's farther range, stronger weapons, higher armor, AND no chance to lose more than 1 per turn of shooting from the Squadron/Open-Topped Rule. with that extra 15 points, you can buy another Autocannon for your Heavy Weapons Squad instead of that Heavy Bolter =D

I've been working on a similar 2500pt ard boyz list. Go with vendettas. Any list without three of them needs revision. Theyre arguibly the best anti mech gun platform in the game.

My list is similar, using 5 vet melta squads two in chimeras, three in vendettas. an infantry platoon with 2 ten man units wit flamers, snd platoon command with flamers that dance around the russ squadron(2 lrbts and lrbt with plasma cannon) in chimeras. 3 vendettas and two manticore.

I say keep the sentinels. Vendettas are a high priority, and relatively low armored target, so they tend to get killed fairly quickly.

As far as sentinels go (whenever I've used 'em), people either overestimate them or underestimate them. They'll either make them high priority, which gives the rest of your list plenty of time to move about and do what needs to be done, or they'll ignore them, which allows you to showcase what the sentinels are great at; popping transports and tarpitting. You could even drop the LC down to an AC and get rid of one HKM, and give all three smoke launchers for added durability. You already have a good amount of anti-armor as it is, and chances are that your opponent will see the power blobs as more of a threat.

I love sentinels. You can tarpit non powerfist units in assault and the firepower is decent.
I like the army but....

If you are going to blob and put power weapons in your squads, take a priest. He's cheap and the rerolls to hit on the charge are nice. You could also add Straken or Creed for FC, but that gets pricey.

I like the flamers on the PCS.

The meltas on the infantry are meh with BS 3. You're almost better off putting flamers and melta bombs for the sergeants.

The plasma guns are a waste though. Odds are 50-50 you'll miss, and you have what...a 1/3 chance of overheating and killing a model everytime you shoot. I'd risk it on a BS 4 model, but not 3. Take them out and you have almost all the points you need for a priest.

I personally like a vet combo of 2 plas and 1 melta....you lose 1 shot from the 3 plas combo, but the melta's antitank benefits make up for it.

I haven't seen hellhounds or iits variants do well in a non chim list...too easy to target them.

Again, if you take creed, outflanking hellhounds are the bomb diggity.

Thanks for all the replies!

In general, I was trying to stay away from an all mech/ all vet list as that was what I was running prior to this, and I am looking to change things up a little.

On the Sentinels: I agree, they are nothing amazing, but I generally agree with Nocturn's observations about them either becoming a higher priority than they deserve or else being completely ignored. I appreciate what you are all saying about Vendettas; the issue is, I only have one at the moment, and it is just too big of a target by itself. I am debating buying more, but that is more a longer-term project for me. If anything, in the short term I would be tempted to either upgrade this unit to armored Sentinels with PC, or else take another Hellhound/Devildog.

Special Weapons on the Infantry Squads: I am starting to see the wisdom of what Gen. Hobbs is saying about putting plasma out there in the squads; as I noted above, I was trying to put some anit-armor/anit-heavy infantry firepower in the hands of those troopers, but after having played a game with this list I was finding it hard to get those weapons to a location in the blob where they could be effective. I like the suggestion of putting some meltabombs out there, as well as mixing plasma and melta weapons in the vet squads.

Yeah you need 3 vendettas or everyone fires everything at the one or 2. Melta bombs are awesome but you only get 1 attack with them on the charge.

Why go 2 AC 1 HB for the HWS go all out on AC you don't need the HB as they'll be shooting at one target anyway, different range and str so mixing is actually bad, besides your units are already anti infantry enough you need anti transports and stuff to make your anti infantry much more effective.

Same with the sentinel go all AC, one BS3 missile is pretty meh.

The argument about Vendetta vs. the sentinel is pretty moot, squadroned + open-topped+ AV 10 means more weapons hurt it and everything in the damage table renders the sentinels useless.Plus they would easily be a kill point. Both would be shot at nevertheless

but since it's the only thing you have go ahead and use them they have their uses.

LRBTs work well with the hull HB so they could shoot both at range even while moving, besides you've got a lot of HF already.

I'd drop the plasma pistol on the CCS and buy the devil dog and hellhound smokes.

Wow... your getting advice from all over the place, as I am seeing alot of contradictions.

Blobs need melta bombs, or a single walker takes it out of the game. They are not offensive weapons, they are defensive. You do not charge walkers, you shoot them with Meltas.

Attacking blobs need all melta due to the assault factor vs plasma. If it is a defensive blob, it should have ACs in it since it is static. Yes, you still want meltas... not GLs or Plasmas. This is Walker/DSer/Outflanker defence to keep them from blowing up your Manticore. And, for the love of the Emperor, why are you using LRBTs stationary defended by a bubble squad, /specially/ with a HF??? Either you use LRBTs to drive forward to destroy infantry and support the mech half of your list or you replace them with a real artillery selection.

The BS 3 arguement for plasma guns is the same arguement for anything you throw on a Sentinal. That 145pts for your Sentinals or 2 AC HWSs for 150pts... which has more firepower and survivability? *ding ding ding* AC HWS wins.

A 40 man Blob is not needed for a single Manticore. Either get a second Platoon and do two 20 man blobs or trim it down. The only real advantage to a second platoon is you can now have two PCSs in Chimeras moving up with your assault Vet Chimeras and LRBTs.

Not a fan of the Fast attack here. You said you only have one Vendetta, fine. They could be two more Melta Vets in Chimeras, Creed and a Lord, or more HWSs. If you ever get two Vendettas, drop the PCS Chimeras and throw the PCSs in the Vendettas.

Your doing blob, that means Orders. Your CCS driving off as a cheap plasma platform to get blown up means they are not doing Orders. If you have 4+ units that you can give Orders to every turn, get Creed. Ditch the Chimera, get a Camo Cloaks and a Lascannon. Put the CCS within 12" (without Creed, with 24") of your blob and HWSs. Get a Lord Commissar (naked or Camo Cloaks and a Bolter will be fine) to place within 6" of your HWSs, now they have Ld 9 for Orders and Morale/pinning tests... attach to one to make it Stubborn if it is desired.

Manticore is fine, but half your army (melta vets) wants to get within 6"-12" of the enemy, thus nulliffying the artillery as you now risk shooting your own stuff on a scatter. You may be better off with non-scatterable support fire then artillery.

This is how you list will look with my suggestions...

CCS - 270pts
Creed, 2x Plasma guns, LC, Camo Cloaks, OotF, MoO

Lord Commissar - 80pts
Bolter, Camo Cloak

Vets - 155pts
3x Melta guns, Chimera w/HF

Vets - 155pts
3x Melta guns, Chimera w/HF

Vets - 155pts
3x Melta guns, Chimera w/HF

Platoon
PCS - 120pts
4x Flamers, Plasma Pistol, Melta bomb, Chimera w/HF

PIS - 130pts (blob)
Commissar, 2x PW, Melta bomb, Melta gun, AC

PIS - 85pts (blob)
PW, Melta bomb, Melta gun, AC

2x HWS - 150pts (75pts each)
3x ACs

2x HWS - 210pts (105pts each)
3x LCs

LRBT Demolisher - 165pts

LRBT Demolisher - 165pts

Manticore - 160pts

2000pts

This gives you an extra Vet squad, 7 LC shots at 3 targets (possible TLed depending on Orders and target), 16 AC shots at 3 targets (possible TLed depending on Orders and target). 2 Demolishers to travel with your 4 Chimeras, a possible TLed MoO (depending on Orders and target) and your Manticore shots. One of your Melta Vets or a Demolisher can be sent as a Outflanker due to Creed's Tactical Genius.

Personally, I do not like artillery with mech assault, as I stated above. I would rather do a gunline with artillery or non-scatterable support fire (gunline) to go with the Mech.

Yeah, I left the HBs on the Demolishers. I want a weapon I can fire every turn.

Good luck and if anything I hope it gives you something to think about...

Thanks for the great input! It certainly gives me something to think about. I had thought about running two platoons to get two blobs, but from my experience 20 bodies and 3 power weapons just isn't enough to do what I want to do with them (fend off assault units and/or make assaults of their own).

I hear your concerns about scattering artillery, too. My thought here was to hold back the Chimeras a turn or two to let the arty soften up whatever is in their way, before charging them in for objective grabs. Likewise, the CCS is intended to stay back and move around my backfield to deal with deep striking and outflanking units, which would keep them within order range of the blob and HWTs. I do like the concept of the "stay-at-home" CCS, though. I've never used Creed...that might be interesting.

If I'm going to end up doing a massive infantry castle with HWTs, a stay at home CCS, and a Commissar Lord, I might just spring for some Ratling snipers..I have the models and hear they do well, although I don't have the models for a Psyker battle squad to lower leadership of their target.

Hrmm...I'm going to have to think this one over. I'll get back to you

Eh... Ratlings and sniper weapons in general are best against low armor save, high Toughness things... like MCs. Any type of real armor save just kills them really (aka Power armor), much less stuff like BA or Plague marines with FNP to go with that armor.

PBSs used to lower Ld just for a Pinning test? That is /alot/ of points spent to keep one unit from doing something for 1 turn. I personally would rather take those points and put it toward units that actually kill something. Specially when just taking out the PBS solves the inconvience... or riding in a vehicle.

Glad to help.