Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm back again with another list after I acquired some new models


HQ

Company CS
Carapace Armour
Meltagun x3
Power Sword
Chimera w/ Dozer Blade
Points - 175

Troops

Platoon Alpha -
PCS 1, 5
Commissar w/ Power Fist
Commander w/ Power Fist
Flamer x2
Points - 105

Blob 1, 30
Commissar w/ Power Sword
Sgt. w/ Power Sword x3
Sgt. w/ Melta Bombs x3
G. Launcher x3
Krak Grenades
Points - 265

Platoon Beta -
PCS 2, 5
Commissar w/ Power Fist
Commander w/ Power Fist
Mortar
Points - 100

Blob 2, 20
Commissar w/ Power Sword
Sgt. w/ Power Sword x2
Sgt. w/ Meltabomb x2
G. Launcher x2
Autocannon team x2
Points - 205

HWS 2, 3 teams
Missile Launcher x3
Points - 90

Fast Attack -
Bane Wolf, 1
Extra Amour
Smoke Launcher
Storm Bolter
Points - 160

Heavy Support -
Leman Russ Battle Tank, 1
Lascannon
Heavy Bolters
Extra Amour
Points - 200

Leman Russ Battle Tank, 1
Lascannon
Extra Amour
Camo netting
Points - 200

Points Summary:
HQ: 175
Troops: 765
Fast Attack: 160
Heavy Support: 400
Total: 1500 - Would like to keep it around 1500.

Amazing how it's 1500 exact

General Strategy -
CCS in Chimera and zooms around firing off Melta shots at opponents armour, can pop smoke if needed.
Platoon Alpha takes up forward positions, objectives in the middle and then pours shots into advancing infantry until it comes to CC, then bogs them down for as long as possible. Bane wolf and Chimera ( if needed ) provide support against opponent's armour and horde. Hopefully, with all the shots being fired and templates the enemy will be weakened enough for my blob to kill them off or a tleast get them to retreat.
Platoon Beta holds home objectives/position and fires shot after shot into the enemy infantry. HWS with missile launchers go for armour or packs of infantry.
Leman Russ' gun for enemy armour and then provide support with lovely large templates.

Power fists, swords and melta bombs are for any deep striking, outflanking, etc.

Now, after putting my list together and setting it up visual. I have found I have any extra 10 guardsmen, 2 unassembled. The most obvious answer is to make my blobs bigger, but I was thinking of having a Vet squad in the Chimera. It would be a bigger unit and have more wounds, so the melta's wouldn't be at as much risk. Thoughts?

Thanks, any help/advice/criticism/ridicule is welcome .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shameless bump attempt

Really not sure of power fists/commissars in PCS. If they are to be used for vehicle killing as close range, then the flamer (and even worse mortar) loadout does not work. Give them melta - and even then I'm not sure. Too vulnerable to assault from almost any other unit.

Single chimera with CSS in is a bit too much of a target. Likely to die turn one. Drop the can or get some more so it is less obvious.

Camo netting on Russ is a no no. You want them to move so they are not auto hit in CC. Heavy bolters also not really needed - with a a battle cannon and lascannon, what target would also benefit from bolter fire?

HWS I prefer autocannon or lascannon rather than missile launcher.

Second blob has heavy weapons and power weapons in, so seems a bit confused on how it will be used.

Banewolf needs the cover of other chimera chassis (see CCS above) to be able to last long enough to shoot.

ruminator wrote:Really not sure of power fists/commissars in PCS. If they are to be used for vehicle killing as close range, then the flamer (and even worse mortar) loadout does not work. Give them melta - and even then I'm not sure. Too vulnerable to assault from almost any other unit.
They're aren't for vehicle killing, just an added punch for any CC. Mainly to charge into the enemy that's already engaged with a blob. It won't always work out that way, but that's the plan.
Single chimera with CSS in is a bit too much of a target. Likely to die turn one. Drop the can or get some more so it is less obvious.
With them having the only meltas, i'd imagine they'll be a target anyway. So I'd rather the added protection and be able to move faster.
Camo netting on Russ is a no no. You want them to move so they are not auto hit in CC. Heavy bolters also not really needed - with a a battle cannon and lascannon, what target would also benefit from bolter fire?
The heavy bolters could come off, but really it's just a WYSIWYG.
HWS I prefer autocannon or lascannon rather than missile launcher.
Same range and can be used effectively as anti-horde as well. I'll see how it works out for me.
Second blob has heavy weapons and power weapons in, so seems a bit confused on how it will be used.
Again it's just for an added edge if anything DS in close by. So instead of just "gg, they're dead so lets hope they'll contest long enough", they'll be able to put up a fight and take some enemies with them.
Banewolf needs the cover of other chimera chassis (see CCS above) to be able to last long enough to shoot.
Again, something I'll have to see for myself.

Other notes -

The Mortar and Autocannon could be used in their own HWS, but I know it's better to keep it all 1 weapon type.
I'm limited on funds, so this is working with what I have at this point in time.

They're aren't for vehicle killing, just an added punch for any CC. Mainly to charge into the enemy that's already engaged with a blob. It won't always work out that way, but that's the plan.

6 guys with T 3, two at Init 1 and Str 6, are dead meat in CC. Your blob will have to many figs due to the wrap around rules for consolidating assault to fit your PCS in CC as well... unless they are side by side and charge at the same time. That means your PCS can't hide behind the blob and has to be upfront, being exposed to fire... why not kill the 6 man squad first then pump wasted rounds into the blob? Your wasting 65pts. I will also point out your first failed morale save your Platoon Commander is exicuted by the Commissar, losing you that other fist. I will point out a AC HWS is 75pts.

With them having the only meltas, i'd imagine they'll be a target anyway. So I'd rather the added protection and be able to move faster.

You put troops in a Chimera to protect them from small arms fire. Your Chimera blows up, every guy in the squad takes a wound. Your 20pts in Carapace actually helps them survive this meaning 50% of your CCS will be killed instead of 66%, but hey, every guy you lose is a minus 1 to that Ld 9, unless your commander dies, then it is Ld 7... so your looking at making a Ld 4-6 roll (depending if your Commander lives)... you then watch all those points run away. CCS can issue 'Move!x3' to itself, so the Chimera does not really make them faster... and the Dozer blade is wasted points.

The heavy bolters could come off, but really it's just a WYSIWYG

Magnets are your friend.

Same range and can be used effectively as anti-horde as well. I'll see how it works out for me.

Str 8 krak means your not shooting AV 14 vehicles, so you end up shooting the same vehicles a Str 7 AC shoots at (AV 12 or less), but the AC gets two shots instead of one. Str 4 frag uses the small marker... with troops 2" apart from each other, your really lucky to get 2-3 guys in the blast.... if you hit. then when you wound and they make their armor saves, your probably lucky you kill 1 guy. AC does the same thing really... Missile Launcher is 5pts more than a AC, so the AC wins this comparison.

Again it's just for an added edge if anything DS in close by. So instead of just "gg, they're dead so lets hope they'll contest long enough", they'll be able to put up a fight and take some enemies with them.

If something DS next to you, they can not charge you unless they are Vanguard Vets. All they can do is shoot, and you choose who you lose. Your turn you then shoot them back, issuing 'First rank fire!Second rank fire!' to your lasguns (if you don't move) and shooting him 3 times with every lasgun in 12" of him from that blob. Then the meltas open up , then /you/ charge him if he is within 6" and destroy what is left. Besides, even if they are Vanguard Vets, you /want/ to be in CC with him with a blob, that is the point of blobs with units like that. I will give you kudos for properly kitting out your blob though... commissar, check. Power weapons, check. melta bombs, check.

Again, something I'll have to see for myself.

4 vehicles, 2 of them AV 12 at 1500pts means all 4 of your vehicles are probably getting shot at by any decent list.

You make a lot of good points and thanks for the depth of your answers.

Questions -
How should I kit out my PCS'? On my last topic, everyone seemed fine with the double power fists if I recall correctly.

What should I do with my autocannons and mortar, leave them be or put them into their own HWS for the time being? ( until I get more stuff to make a x3 autocannon squad )

Should I drop the Chimera altogether until I get more?

I'll post more later, currently at school.

Again, I'm limited on what I can do.

Piz wrote:You make a lot of good points and thanks for the depth of your answers.

Questions -
How should I kit out my PCS'? On my last topic, everyone seemed fine with the double power fists if I recall correctly.

What should I do with my autocannons and mortar, leave them be or put them into their own HWS for the time being? ( until I get more stuff to make a x3 autocannon squad )

Should I drop the Chimera altogether until I get more?

I'll post more later, currently at school.

Again, I'm limited on what I can do.

I totally understand that your trying to make the best out of the situation. If anything, these are goals to work toward. If you have a ton of infantry, power blob probably is your best choice. It will probably be cheaper to get more heavy weapons than it will be to get more Chimeras.

How should I kit out my PCS'? On my last topic, everyone seemed fine with the double power fists if I recall correctly.

This is how I kit mine out... 4x Flamers. I have added in a Plasma Pistol for walker defence and incase something nasty decides it wants to take out the squad. This makes the squad 60pts. I then issue 'Move!x3' On them (I am a foot slogger) when I want them to get somewhere. Remember cover is your friend, and know what the PCS's role is in your game. My role for them is to go out and attack weak camping units (scouts, Rangers, Gretchen, ect) that also depend on cover for saves. I find it hard to believe any real Guard player worth his salt would tell you getting a Commissar and two PFs is a good idea.

What should I do with my autocannons and mortar, leave them be or put them into their own HWS for the time being? ( until I get more stuff to make a x3 autocannon squad )

The Mortar just isn't that great. It is a barrage weapon meaning it is pinning and can fire indirect... but Str 4 AP 6 that allows cover saves is not that much to write home about. Maybe in mass it might be effective, but one or two will not slow down most foes, much less hurt them. ACs can be left in the blob if it is a defensive blob, but you really do not have any artillery to defend. I would say wait till you can get more stuff to make a full HWS of ACs.

Should I drop the Chimera altogether until I get more?

Yeah. It just comes down to the reason why Chimera melta vets work... you rush them with 8-10 Chimeras full of melta vets... they just can't kill them all fast enough before you get in range to light stuff up. No one who runs that expects to have more than 50% of their forces by turn 3. That 55pts plus can be more troops. Either that or keep it and accept the fact that your not attacking with it... just use it as a command vehicle for issuing out Orders. Give your CCS 2x Plasma Guns and a LC or AC.

Good luck...

Hm, once again thanks. You've given me some things to think about.

At the moment, I think I will use the Chimera as a command vehicle and place the meltas in one of the blobs and adjust my list a little bit.

As for the Bane Wolf, thankful I didn't glue the chem cannon on... Anyway would it be wiser to switch it to just basic Hell Hound with a Heavy Flamer and use it in the same way you suggested to use PCS? ( Don't have enough actual models with flamers to make it work effectively and I'd like to keep it WYSIWYG ) Only I was thinking of keeping it in reserve and having it come in to kill off any gretchin, etc.

Kinda thinking out loud, so to speak.


Edit - Also, any thoughts on using Marbo in a blob army? Go for those anti-armour units. I realize he's a bit of a hit or miss and will most likely die but he seems worth the points, which I'm thinking I'll have after adjusting my list.

Edit 2 -

Quickly revised list, possible errors such as upgrades listed but not given points -

HQ
Company CS
Carapace Armour
Chimera
155

Troops
PCS 1, 5
Commander w/ P. Pistol
Flamer x4
60

Blob 1, 30
Commissar x2
w/ Power Sword x2
Sgt. w/ Power Sword x3
Sgt. w/ Melta Bombs x3
Meltagun x3
Krak Grenades
325

PCS 2, 5
Bolter
G. Launcher x4
52

Blob 2, 20
Commissar
w/ Power Sword
Sgt. w/ Power Sword x2
Sgt. w/ Meltabomb x2
Autocannon team x2
Krak Grenades
250
HWS 2, 3 teams
Missile Launcher x3
90

Elites
Marbo, 1
65

Fast Attack
Hell Hound, 1
Extra Amour
Smoke Launcher
Storm Bolter
Hull Heavy Flamer
160

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Battle Tank, 1
Lascannon
Extra Amour
180

Leman Russ Battle Tank, 1
Lascannon
Extra Amour
180

Points Summary:
HQ: 125
Troops: 777
Elites: 65
Fast Attack: 160
Heavy Support: 360
Total: 1497

Not 100% sure on the extra Commissar in the first blob, thought I'd see what you guys thought about it. Thanks again.

As for the Hell Hound/Bane Wolf... this is the kicker... the PCS is a scoring unit. Burning out with the fast attack keeps them for claiming it, but your not getting points for it either. once the PCS clears it out, they camp it and defend it... hopefully in cover. But yeah, get some magnets and this way your one model can be any of the 3... same with the hull weapon.

I like Marbro, as he is a suicide unit and your hoping that demo charge will take out more than his 65pts. Anything he kills after that is gravy.

Ditch the Krak Grenades... even if you do hit it is super hard to actually pen or glance anything worthwhile because they are Str 6 (they are not Missile Launcher Krak missiles, but Grenade Launcher krak Grenades). Seriously... look at the weapon and then say the stats out loud and then ask yourself if it is actually useful. /Only/ two good things about a GL is the range and that it is assault.

Your CCS needs weapons. I am assuming you bought 2 meltas and a AC for that 30pts that isn't a CCS, Carapace, or a Chimera.

Guard do not need bells and whistles on their vehicles... go bare bones... that is /30pts/ per LRBT, 60 total extra points that really do nothing for you.
LRBTs do not attack vehicles... a single BS 3 shot with the LC and a ordnance Str 8 blast (You have read the rules on Ordnance, right?) means LRBTs /suck/ as anti-tank vehicles. If you want a anti-tank (AT) vehicle, your best option is the Vendetta.

Ditch the bolter unless your getting 5 of them for all the sergeants that can have them. Guard is divisible by 5.

I feel the extra Commissar is not needed, as that is 45pts (to go with the 60pts from your LRBTs) is almost 20 troops fully kitted out.... much less all the other points that your spending that doesn't really help you (like the Krak Grendaes).

You don't have to buy the figs (you can really kit-bash them), but you should consider Creed, Kell, and/or a Lord Commissar or even a second CCS for more Orders... two CCSs and Creed means your giving 6 Orders a turn, not counting the PCS's Orders. With a ground pounding army like this, Orders are pretty important.

BlkTom wrote:If something DS next to you, they can not charge you unless they are Vanguard Vets. All they can do is shoot, and you choose who you lose. Your turn you then shoot them back, issuing 'First rank fire!Second rank fire!' to your lasguns (if you don't move) and shooting him 3 times with every lasgun in 12" of him from that blob. Then the meltas open up , then /you/ charge him if he is within 6" and destroy what is left. Besides, even if they are Vanguard Vets, you /want/ to be in CC with him with a blob, that is the point of blobs with units like that. I will give you kudos for properly kitting out your blob though... commissar, check. Power weapons, check. melta bombs, check.

BTW, I don't believe I can shoot my lasguns ( Rapid Fire ) and assault that same turn.

I'm currently revamping my list, mainly swapping around special weapons and such, but I remembered this and knew that couldn't be right.

I agree with the double fist pcs and using them as a countercharge unit. I actually suggested that in another thread somewhere recently, im amazed you are already doing it! Please tell me if it works.. Im going to test it out too in my next few games

Piz wrote:

BlkTom wrote:If something DS next to you, they can not charge you unless they are Vanguard Vets. All they can do is shoot, and you choose who you lose. Your turn you then shoot them back, issuing 'First rank fire!Second rank fire!' to your lasguns (if you don't move) and shooting him 3 times with every lasgun in 12" of him from that blob. Then the meltas open up , then /you/ charge him if he is within 6" and destroy what is left. Besides, even if they are Vanguard Vets, you /want/ to be in CC with him with a blob, that is the point of blobs with units like that. I will give you kudos for properly kitting out your blob though... commissar, check. Power weapons, check. melta bombs, check.

BTW, I don't believe I can shoot my lasguns ( Rapid Fire ) and assault that same turn.

I'm currently revamping my list, mainly swapping around special weapons and such, but I remembered this and knew that couldn't be right.

Nope, your right, you can't charge if you use rapid fire weapons. It was kinda tricky wording and I failed in defining my point clearly. Pretty much if they are 18" to 12" away, Move and/or Rapid Fire (with the Order if possible). If they are within 6", skip the Order, shoot the Assault weapons (melta guns), and charge. I am still not sure if it is clear...

it's clear enough! more shooty! if them's too close, use walky-shooty then bash ther 'eads in!

Question about HWS. Can I still shoot the lasgun of my "loader/spotter"? It doesn't state that they replace their lasguns with a HW and it even stats Lasgun under the HWS wargear. Also, if I do move them does that also allow me to use them as another 2 lasguns?

Thanks.

The 'team' has only one lasgun. I think they either choose to fire the hvy weapon or the lasgun. Often if the squad moves, you can then rapidfire as an attempt at selfdefence

Meh, I dropped the team in question and just added 6 regular guardsmen Thanks for the answer though!

Well, it is just that your Heavy weapon is probably better then any lasgun they fire. But if your blob is not a defensive blob, ditching the HWTs (if these are the units your talking about) to make them mobile is not a bad thing.

Would you be willing to re-post your list with any changes you have made, specially if your removing things from it. Right now I am not sure what your CCS looks like and it is kinda hard to suggest changes when I am not sure what your at now.

I finally set up my first game for later today and this is the list I'm taking. In the future things will be changed, but currently this utilizes all, but 1 -.-, of my models that I have available to me.

HQ
Company CS
Carapace Armour
Chimera
w/ Heavy Flamer
Creed
Kell
300

Troops
PCS 1, 5
Commander w/ Power Fist
Flamer x4 Commissar
w/ Power Fist
115

Blob 1, 30
Commissar w/ Power Sword
Sgt. w/ Power Sword x3
Sgt. w/ Melta Bombs x3
G. Launcher x3
255

PCS 2, 5
Commander w/ P. Pistol
Meltagun x3
70

Blob 2, 30
Commissar
w/ Power Sword
Sgt. w/ Power Sword x3
Sgt. w/ Meltabomb x3
Autocannon team x2
Mortar
265

Fast Attack
Hell Hound, 1
Extra Amour
Smoke Launcher
Storm Bolter
Hull Heavy Flamer
160

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Exterminator, 1
Lascannon
165

Leman Russ Exterminator, 1
Lascannon
165

Points Summary:
HQ: 300
Troops: 705
Fast Attack: 160
Heavy Support: 330
Total: 1495

Yes, Hydras are cheaper Exterminators but I don't have access to them. I know you didn't like the PCS with Power Fists, but with the flamers and with Creed's special order I think they'll be okay. Mortar will eventually be replaced with another autocannon. Still not sure where to put the melta's, maybe in blob 1 instead of the G. Launchers? If you're curious, the HWT that I removed was the one with missile launchers.

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Al'Rahim in this thread yet. In my opinion, he is a must for IG blob squads. Since your blobs have limited mobility, having Al'Rahim let one of your platoons outflank is really gret for getting them where you want them to be. I think he is one of the most important pieces to a successful IG blob army.

After playing 2 games vs Tau, it's become apparent that I need harder hitting anti-vehicle. I don't think the autocannons are bad, I just had some bad rolls.

So in time I'm going to add a lascannon and autocannon HWS ( 2 separate squads, not to confuse ).

I like the idea of Al'Rahim, not sure how to kit his platoon ( cs and inf. squads ), if you could give some tips on that I'd appreciate it.

Creed did wonders, thinking of dropping Kell though as it didn't seem like he had an impact.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any opinions on Scout Sentinels w/ Missile Launchers ( with magnets to swap to other gear ) for tank hunting/busting? I was thinking of running 1 squad of 3.

Yes, try the missile sentinels with hunterkillers. If you can, make them in seperate squadrons (like 1 solo, and a pair) so you can split targets a little bit

Al'Rahem PCS is good with melta since he can issue BiD while his platoon needs to be mobile so no HWTs. Meltaguns on blobs would greatly help against mechanized opponents.

With a blob list, having 2 AC HWSs (150pts, 75pts each) and 2 LC HWSs (210pts, 105pts each). Your list is lacking in long rang AT, but that has been covered a few times.

Sentinals are BS 3, so any weapon you put on them, specially one shot weapons, only have a 50% chance of hitting. The only good weapon to put on a sentinal is a AC, but then you have to ask if a AC HWS at 75pts is a better option (I think it is).

Kell means you can issue Orders using Creed's Leadership or the unit's leadership... which ever is higher. He also has a Standard giving all units within 12" a re-roll on Morale/pinning test, has a PW and a PF, and is a Body Guard for Creed. If you get rid of Kell, you should get a Lord Commissar for Heavy Weapon Squads and Orders. Your list is lacking HWSs because your personally limited on having them, but when you get more, and you need them IMO, you will see Kell and/or a Lord will really shine when Creed issues 'Bring it Down!' to make your HWSs TLed vs Vehicles and MCs.

Al'Rahem is by far not a 'standard' in blob lists. He is a standard in outflanking lists. Your list is not a Outflanking list, but Creed would allow you to have two Outflanking Platoons... but realise that the /entire/ platoon (PCS, PISs, SWS, HWS, ect) all come in one one roll, together as per the rules right above the PCS entry in the IG Codex (pg 96). To be effective, you really want 3 Platoons with your 3rd having all of your HWSs and being a defensive blob. You will /need/ a Astropath and you will /need/ to rebuild your entire list to do this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yes, replace the GLs with melta guns. Give your CCS a Plasma gun (or two if you get rid of Kell) and a LC (to make use of the BS 4). If you gave your CCS Camo Cloaks instead of a Chimera, Creed could give the CCS Orders, you would have more points, and actually have better survivability as blowing up the Chimera wounds every man in the CCS.

I agree, I will be using Creed on foot in the future. I think I'll have to wait until I actually have a HWS before I decide on Kell or not, but for the time being I won't be including him.

HWS will be part of my next purchase for sure.

Making up an entirely new platoon is a while down the rode, so that's not something I'll be considering or testing anytime soon.

Yesterday, even though it was just vs Tau, my GLs worked wonderfully and I think they'll be a good addition for the multiple Tyranid and Ork armies, and good old fashion infantry, I've seen at my FLGS.

The more I think about Sentinals outflanking to tank hunt, the more I'm liking it tbh. I'll definitely be magnetizing the weapon options so I can try ML, AC, and LC to see which works best for me.

I think I might make 1 more big purchase, so my list won't be changing for the time being. Also going to be looking for a part time job to help finance my army so it's not built up slower then it currently is.

Other then that, I'd like to say thanks to everyone who gave their opinions and comments. While a lot of options aren't possible for the moment, you've given me a better direction to go then I was previously.

It sounds like you have a handle on things... more you play the more you find what works best for you.

Good luck and have fun!

ALL on Foot 1500 pts

HQ

75- CCS: vox, Las.

75- CCS: vox, Las.

Troop

Platoon 1

50- PCS 1: MB, GL x2, vox

310- Blob 1-1: 30man, Priest, Commie (PW,MB), Sgt.(PWx3, MBx3), flamer x3, vox

135- Blob 1-2: 20man, Sgt.(MB x2), Melta x2, vox

105- HWsq 1-1: Las x3

75- HWsq 1-2: A/C x3

Platoon 2

50- PCS 2: MB, GL x2, vox

310- Blob 2-1: 30man, Priest, Commie (PW,MB), Sgt.(PWx3, MBx3), flamer x3, vox

135- Blob 2-2: 20man, Sgt.(MB x2), Melta x2, vox

105- HWsq 2-1: Las x3

75- HWsq 2-2: A/C x3

1500pts

What about this blob action?

Any 35pt Commissars can not have melta bombs. Priests are OK but they can be targeted in CC since they are a IC, though I do love the chain fist. You only need 1 vox per blob. I would rather have melta guns instead of flamers because if you do hit, not much is going to survive it. GLs suck IMO due to the fact your only using the Krak nade and that will allow all power armor saves and it can only glance AV 12.

I would rather have five 20 man blobs than two 30 and two 20. Besides, the 20 man blobs don't have Commissars meaning they will run when shot. If you have over 4+ units that would be more effecent with Orders, you should look at Creed and Kell or a Lord Commissar (or both).

Besides, this is Piz's thread and he seems pretty satisfied where he is at. Instead of adding on to this you may want to either extend your own thread or start a new one.