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Why do I never see these guys among the shiny Knights? Sounds like they work like Space Marine Devies.... except the fact that they can move and fire with Psycannons.

Likely because with Purifiers and just normal Grey Knights you get lots of Psycannons as it is.

Grey Knight armies are generally small in number, but the units are able to perform numerous roles. While a squad with 4 Psycannons has scary firepower, I'd hazard a guess that in general Grey Knights players can't afford a sizable unit of force weapons and storm bolters to be standing still in cover most of them time (which is what you would do, to make sure you get Heavy 4 from your Psycannons).

Also, it might be that they're competing for slots with Psyflmen Dreads? 130pts is a HARD deal to pass on for what you get in that package.

Have to agree, dreadnoughts take priority since they have longer reach. Added to the fact that you can get plenty of psycannons from every slot in the army. Although I hear they're actually not bad with incinerators

Well, you would loose the storm bolters for the cannons. And I'm not planning on running any Psyflmen Dreads so I would appreciate some heavy fire-power for my army. I already have a Dreadknight but a Heavy Incinerator just doesn't cut it.

Panzerboy26 wrote:While a squad with 4 Psycannons has scary firepower, I'd hazard a guess that in general Grey Knights players can't afford a sizable unit of force weapons and storm bolters to be standing still in cover most of them time (which is what you would do, to make sure you get Heavy 4 from your Psycannons).

I'm not quite sure what you mean here, as a Purgation Squad should have no more than one model with a Storm Bolter or Power Weapon.

It's a 45 point difference (Dreads are 135). You can either get 4 TL S8 shots, or 16 S7 rending shots at half the range. I'm not sure what people are playing against that tells them that 24" (or 30" if you really need it) can't reach out and touch a few things. That's a pretty large footprint on a 4'x6' table.

I'm not saying that you should only use Purgation squads instead of the Dreads. All I know is there's a Grey Knight player I go up against regularly, and his Dreads don't take much firepower to drop, but the Purgation squads are ones I need to worry about, if I want to get anywhere close to him.

But at the same time, a five men unit cant take too many loses or else they'll quickly run low on their fire power. True you could make them like hive guard with astral aim but that'll make their firepower less impressive against vehicles normally too large to get cover saves

Here's the problem with purgation, who btw I have run repeatedly to no avail.

1) Dreadnoughts are better than anything else in the heavy slot: its just a fact and why you see so many dreads. They are simply the 2nd best shooty dread in the game (beaten only by venerable in the elite slot) because they are tough and put out a pile of high strength shots at long range, at a low price. Space wolf players complain about our dreads even when they run 3 units of long fangs, because the dread is more mobile, and in general more survivable. Long fangs are vastly superior to purgation squads, so I don't think the dreadnought comparison is even fair.

2) Dreadknights are better: this one is more debatable, but a dreadknight can cause a whole world of havoc on the board, while you can't really say the same about purgation squads. For roughly the same cost you get a generally more effective unit, whether its for absorbing fire or dealing damage, the DK will probably win. Its a close comparison here but I still think the DK wins.

3) Land Raiders are better: this one is army specific, but a player running lots of terminators or paladins doesn't have much use for 5 PA armor guys in rhino, when what they really need is a transport and a battle tank. Draigowing simply has no use for purgation because they don't fit into a 2+ armor list like that.

4) Purifier armies don't need purgation: Every squad has 2 psycannons at minimum and for only 10 points a piece. Why pay a massive premium on weapons that the army will be full of already, on units that are also more effective in every other way?

5) Everyone has psycannons: This is the big nail in the coffin really. Because I can find lots of psycannons in literally every slot of the army, I don't generally need more of them in my heavy slot, especially when I'm desperate to get some long range heavy weapons that are different from what the rest of my army can already do.

People who play other space marine armys can make the automatic comparison to devastator squads, against whom purgation stack up very poorly. Devastators bring lots of long range heavy weapons that the army needs to take down high profile threats, and can afford to stand still because of that. Purgation just bring more of the same weapon that every other GK unit carries, which is too short ranged to be able to stand still and shoot until late in the game. I need my heavy weapons firing on turn 1 at full effect, not turn 3 or 4.

Purgation with 2-4 incinerators is alot of fun and cheap, I will admit. But the run the problem of being a 1 trick pony in army full of expensive generalists. Every unit needs to be ready to pull double duty on shooting infantry, monsters or tanks, and be able to take an assault in GK lists. Purgation don't fit that bill at all.

somerandomdude wrote:

Panzerboy26 wrote:While a squad with 4 Psycannons has scary firepower, I'd hazard a guess that in general Grey Knights players can't afford a sizable unit of force weapons and storm bolters to be standing still in cover most of them time (which is what you would do, to make sure you get Heavy 4 from your Psycannons).

I'm not quite sure what you mean here, as a Purgation Squad should have no more than one model with a Storm Bolter or Power Weapon.

It's a 45 point difference (Dreads are 135). You can either get 4 TL S8 shots, or 16 S7 rending shots at half the range. I'm not sure what people are playing against that tells them that 24" (or 30" if you really need it) can't reach out and touch a few things. That's a pretty large footprint on a 4'x6' table.

I'm not saying that you should only use Purgation squads instead of the Dreads. All I know is there's a Grey Knight player I go up against regularly, and his Dreads don't take much firepower to drop, but the Purgation squads are ones I need to worry about, if I want to get anywhere close to him.

That would be assuming you take no extra bodies. I don't know about you, but I would take a full ten man squad so that the squad would be able to absorb some counter-fire without losing psy-cannons.

I have wanted to run 5 of them with 4 incinerators for only 100 points.

The big problem as mentioned is that you are better off using the heavy support options for other units.

That 10 man squad is 280 with the psycannons. The problem is that a 10 man squad of purifiers with nothing but 4 psycannons cost the exact same. And I would pick the purifiers any day of the week for being fearless, having extra attacks and cleansing flame. Not to mention for an extra 12 points I could give the rest of the squad halberds and make them equally deadly in assault and shooting.

A build I might actually try for fun is this:

5 man squad with 4 incinerators, rhino
140 points

Give them scout/outflanking from a GKGM grand strategy and watch the fireworks as they get 1 turn of awesome before dying in a blaze of glory. I might even make 2 of those units so they could cause some actual damage... Now that I think of it, that's almost too much fun not to try.

Purgation squad of 6 with 4 psycannons and a psyback costs 250 pts, quite appealing to boost a 1500 army up to 1750 pts (especially one using ven dreads).

Or you could have a purgation squad of 6 with incinerators and a psyback for hordes/cover for 170 pts and upgrade a normal psyfleman to a venerable.

I do use purgation squads with incinerators. Worth every point. I run a henchmen list with Ven Dread support so I don't feel the need to run another set of dreads in the Heavy Support slot.

There are also a few tricks you can pull with them:

1. Scout move from a GKGM (if you bought one). With Coteaz in your list you have a slightly better chance of going first. Throw them forward 12" with the Scout move, then another 12 on turn 1 and disembark. Flame anything up to about 36" away. Great vs Hordes if done right.

2. Send out a sacrificial unit (3 meltas in a chimera...can't get much more sacrificial than that) to block an assault unit. They will either go the long way round or charge. If they charge no consolidate vs vehicles...nicely bunched up for Incinerator counter-attack. I have done nasty things with this in the past (42 wounds over 2 units of Grey Hunters, 36 wounds onto a 9 man TH/SS termie unit).

Even when not using tricks to make them effective they make a pretty potent counter. You can punish an opponent for making small mistakes with coherency (which happens a lot more than people think) or just send them in to mop up smaller units that have taken a beating without having to waste valuable psycannons or whatever that could be used elsewhere.

Never used them with psycannons and probably won't. They become too expensive and psycannons are available in other slots with more ablative wounds surrounding them.

Because all the heavy weapons inthe GK codex are all relatively short ranges, thus it will hard to manuever them around so tthat they are shooting. It is also because normale squads can also get the weapon

some what more useful in city fight as I've seen since I can sit them on the corner of a building/wall without TLOS and just flame all the defending/attacking hordes. I actually perfer to keep them small in that case so I can fit the whole group behind LOS. Astral aim with incinerators ignore the cover saves so it's all just burn burn burn =)

When there's more space and LOS isn't blocked alot, unfortunately I still perfer dreads for the same heavy slot.

I like 5 man squads with 4 incinerators. Burny burny!

1. Scout move from a GKGM (if you bought one). With Coteaz in your list you have a slightly better chance of going first. Throw them forward 12" with the Scout move, then another 12 on turn 1 and disembark. Flame anything up to about 36" away. Great vs Hordes if done right.

Excellent strategy, I need to try it myself one of these days!

Just as a reminder, Purgation squads also gets a teleport homer. So for 100-130 points in a scouting Rhino or even a Storm Raven you can do a lot of damage. It really comes down to play style.