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If I ds an assault terminator squad with libby in TDA, how do I expel him from the squad? Am I allowed to on the turn I ds?

ICs may only Leave a squad in the Movement Phase.

DS models may not Move any farther from deployment the turn they have arrived from Deepstrike, excepting to exit a Vehicle.

End result: unless your IC is arriving via Deepstrike with the Squad in a Transport, he cannot leave the squad the same turn.

Of course, if you didn't want your Libby with the Assault Squad when he comes in, he shouldn't have been attached to them in reserves.

KK is right. Although I'd have to ask why you'd want to detach him from the Terminators on the same turn they come into play anyways? He's better protected, and the Terminators provide wound allocation from attacks that could otherwise be focused on the Librarian. Unless your intentions are to detach him from the Terminators and reattach to a different squad in the same phase, you wouldn't be able to do so until the turn following the turn they arrived by Deep Strike.

Actually, unless I'm missing something, you could move another unit to within 2" of the Librarian. The IC rules specifically say that, if at the end of the Movement phase, an IC is within 2" of multiple units, the owner declares which one he intends to join.

You're right that there is no way to leave the Terminator unit otherwise, though.

The best you could do is to either:

#1 Move another unit to within 2" of the IC and have him join that squad.

Or

#2 Run with the unit so that the IC is out of Coherency and on your next movement phase detach him.

Q: If an Independent Character is joined to a unit that
is outflanking, when can he leave the unit? (p94)
A: If an independent character is arriving from reserve
together with a unit, whether it is outflanking or not,
he cannot leave the unit during the turn it arrives. He
can, of course, leave it as normal from the following
turn.

This should cover deep striking too since the unit is arriving from reserves.

What about using gate of infinity with the same squad on a normal turn? as it is not arriving from reserves?

GoI is phrased "the librarian and his unit" any other IC that would be present would be constituted part of the unit since it's in coherency.

DeathReaper wrote:

#2 Run with the unit so that the IC is out of Coherency and on your next movement phase detach him.

Scratch this post.

What I meant was, since it is not arriving from reserves, but instead being removed and replaced using the deep strike rules, if the librarian and his unit GOI and either end up within 2" of another unit, or I move another unit within 2" of him when he lands, can he leave his first squad, and join the other?

DR - you cannot Run so any members of the unit are out of coherency, as it is a Move. AS it is not during the movement phase you have no permission to leave the IC behind.

Interesting, it does not say anything about that under run on P.16

move and run are two different things.

DeathReaper wrote:Interesting, it does not say anything about that under run on P.16

move and run are two different things.

They are 2 different things, but if any unit moves during any phase other than the actual "Movement Phase", models must maintain coherency at all times. It's only during the Movement Phase when an IC gets to break off from coherency and join another squad, or become a stand alone unit.

Even if you spread the unit out after Deep Striking during the Shooting phase with a "Run" move, the unit has to maintain coherency. And to add to that, if during the second half of that turn, your opponent manages to kill some Terminators, causing the unit to possibly break coherency for the time being, until the start of your coming Movement phase, the Librarian is still considered a part of that unit.

Hope that clears things up.

Just to confirm what Rurouni Benshin is saying, the specific rule is:

An independent character may not join or leave a
unit during the Shooting and Assault phases -
once shots are fired or assaults are launched it is
too late to join in or duck out!

As stated in the "independent characters joining and leaving units" section on page 49 of the BRB.

DR: Running is effected by the unit Coherency rules in the movement section, those rules are part of moving models, and Running is moving models. If Running was entirely different from Movement then it would require it's own page or 2 of rules just to detail exactly how it is you move your running unit.

Also, and more importantly; even if you could move the IC out of Coherency with the run, he still could not leave the unit as you may only leave the unit in the movement phase(brb page 48, second column 5th bullet point)

In short movement Phase and Run re 2 different things, Moving and running are mostly the same thing(you move when running, but don't generally Run when moving A parallel would be: All Catholics are Christian, not all Christians are Catholic).

Running is moving models, but it is not a Move as defined in the movement section, so wouldn't they follow the run rules exclusively?

I read it as the Run rules being more specific than the movement rules.

I will concede the point though as it does not really matter much, and wont ever likely happen in a game.

It doesn't matter anyway since the IC rules expressly prohibit you from breaking from a unit outside of the movement phase (see my previous post).

Well, there goes my dream of taking a jump pack libby and vanguard to gate of infinity heroic intervention every turn.


:/ Hah, would've been fething awesome

Wouldnt have worked anyway, as you have to declare HI before you arrive, and cannot do so as you have an IC with you. You are blocked twice from doing what you wanted.

DeathReaper wrote:Running is moving models, but it is not a Move as defined in the movement section, so wouldn't they follow the run rules exclusively?

I read it as the Run rules being more specific than the movement rules.

I will concede the point though as it does not really matter much, and wont ever likely happen in a game.

If you were to follow the run rules exclusively you would have 0 definition on just how to move your models. the Run rules themselves also reference Difficult and dangerous terrains(rules found in the movement phase rules, just before Unit coherency), but never mentions impassable terrain(again found with difficult and dangerous terrain rules); so if you went solely by the run rules then running through Impassable terrain is perfectly legal(since permission to move is granted, an no restriction from moving through impassable terrain is given); Also the run is a special Random movement as described on Page 11(in the movement rules). "Moving models" is a boxout in the movement Phase rules that describes/defines how to move your models(if the Run rules are the only rules we use then you are free to move your running models by measuring your rolled distance out from the front of your model and then placing the back of it's base at the terminus of that distance; i.e. gaining the width of your base as bonus distance). If you do not use the movement rules, and therefore do not use the Unit Coherency rules(again using only the Run rules), then you cannot actually move any models; run allows for the "unit" to move d6"; it is the unit coherency rules in the movement rules that allow for individual models within a unit to move, and the models in the unit must finish their move within 2" of another model in the unit

As you can see by all that the moving of a run must follow the same rules as the movement phase, because that is where movement is defined.

Also the very first line of Unit Coherency pretty much clinches the whole deal: "When you are moving a unit, the individual models in it can each move up to their maximum movement distance..." I only went this far because I only needed to; the Unit Coherency does not deal with the movement phase, it deals with moving your unit; and the run rules tell you to Move your unit.