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Can you still fire 1 weapon with PoTmS if you performed a tank shock?

I ask because using smoke negates PoTmS and it happens in the movement phase just like tank shocking; which also says you can't fire after doing it

omerakk wrote: tank shocking; which also says you can't fire after doing it

There is no such statement in the rulebook. Tank Shock (pg 68) actually says you can fire as normal in the Shooting phase provided you moved slow enough. PotMS will work just fine.

Ramming (pg 69) is a different matter...

and in that case, would PoTmS let you shoot after ramming or not?

You may use PoTmS after a ram.

A ram only requires you to move the fastest speed possible.

If you move combat, cruising, or flat out you may use PoTmS.

DR - actually Ram has an explicit restriction on shooting. no matter how far you end up moving you may not shoot after ramming.

However nothing seems to stop you using PotMS after ramming.

nosferatu1001 wrote:DR - actually Ram has an explicit restriction on shooting. no matter how far you end up moving you may not shoot after ramming.

However nothing seems to stop you using PotMS after ramming.

Yes ram does have that restriction, I should have made that clear.

Due to the wording of PotMS, and the FaQ which says you can shoot with PotMS after moving flat out, I can see nothing that over-rides PotMS in the ram rules.

"This means it may not shoot during that turn's shooting phase[...]"(Ramming, BRB pg. 69)

"The vehicle may not fire any of its weapons in the same turn as it used its smoke launchers, [...]"(Smoke launchers, BRB pg. 62)

Q. Can a vehicle with the Power of the Machine Spirit
fire a weapon on the turn the vehicle uses Smoke
Launchers? (p36)
A. No.

Note that moving flat out is no different than a regular vehicle moving at cruising speed, that's why a storm raven moving flat-out may shoot one weapon.

However, PotMS does not allow you to shoot any weapons if firing is explicitly forbidden, like when using smoke launchers.

Jidmah wrote:...
However, PotMS does not allow you to shoot any weapons if firing is explicitly forbidden, like when using smoke launchers.

Flat out says "Fast vehicles moving flat out may fire no weapons"

Same as smoke and ramming.

May not shoot, may fire no weapons is the same thing since firing a weapon is shooting.

In both cases you are not allowed to fire any weapons, PotMS lets you fire one more than normally permitted.

One more than none is one.

Except for in the case of using smoke, which specifically says PoTmS doesn't work. I was curious if anyone thought ramming would have the same effect since it is also done in the moving phase and says no shooting, like smoke does. This is more of a RAI discussion and possible future faq. Seeing as how nothing currently says you can't use machine spirit after ramming, I think it would be allowed.

What does everyone else think?

Permissive rulesets work the other way around. Unless it explicitly says you may shoot a weapon even though you are not allowed to shoot, you may not.

There is also a difference between "It may fire no weapons" and "It may not shoot at all".

Jidmah wrote:Permissive rulesets work the other way around. Unless it explicitly says you may shoot a weapon even though you are not allowed to shoot, you may not.

There is also a difference between "It may fire no weapons" and "It may not shoot at all".

Those are the same, may fire no weapons means it may not shoot, they are synonymous.

In the first instance you can not fire any weapons, in the second... you can not fire any weapons.

PotMS allows you to shoot when you otherwise can not shoot.

Smoke was FaQ'd to not work.

By looking at the GK codex, which is the most recent printing of PotMS, I noticed that Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned are no longer explicitly mentioned as exception, meaning that you are supposed to fire that weapon even if you are explicitly forbidden to any fire weapons at all.

By just looking at the space marine codex, I would still disagree. However PotMS is (RAI) supposed to work the same for all chapters.

Thus, you are probably right.