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I have several rules queries:

1) In an Assault or Defenders React, do your models move through models of a different friendly unit? For example:

AAA
ABA
AAAAAAA
B
B
B

C

Suppose unit B was trying to assault unit C. A is friendly to B. Would the topmost B be able fo join in? Or if they were assaulted in turn? What if the top B were an Independent character in B? Etc.


2) What happens if after the pile-in of an assault phase, no models of the engaged units can reach base to base with each other? Either because of distance (assaulted the tail end of a Guard blob) or because of a scenario like top-B being the last survivor of his melee?

Thanks.

Both are answered in the BRB

1) The trapped model may not assault, and must be kept in coherency of the rest of the unit. If that is not possible then the unit cannot assault.

BRB Assault Movement rules:
All of the models in an assaulting unit make their
assault move following the same rules as in the
Movement phase, with the exception that they may be
moved within 1 " of enemy models. This means that
assaulting models may still not move through friendly
or enemy models, may not pass through gaps narrower
than their base, and may not move into base contact
with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting.

BRB Assault Movement restrictions:
Assaulting units must attempt to engage as many
opposing models as possible with as many of their
models as possible - no holding back!

-and-

• The most important one is that each model must end
its assault move in coherency with another model in
its own unit that has already moved.

• If a model cannot reach any enemy models, it must
try to move within 2" of one of its own unit's models
that is already in base contact with an enemy.
• If this is impossible, it must simply stay in coherency.

2) They are no longer locked in combat. (This goes for both scenarios since pile in has to abide by the normal movement rules)

See BRB Pile In! rules:
If both units' pile-in moves combined (that's
more than 12" - very unlikely!) would be insufficient to
bring the combatants back together, the assault comes
to an end and both sides may make consolidation
moves instead, as described below.

Thanks. I figured the first part, missed the second part. This answers both of my questions...now to apply this newfound knowledge.

If the trapped model B had enough room to move between the bases of A then he would assault, if not then he would be stuck.

Unit B could assault as long as they followed the assault rules.

This might mean that only 1 model from Unit B would be in B2B, but that happens sometimes.

Good, good. See...I can envision some scenarios where intentionally using one of my units to prevent another one of my units from being able to make a full assault would be advantageous, especially if I could use an expendable though relatively resilient unit to pull an enemy unit towards me by pile-in...

Suppose casualties were allocated in an assault, and while unit C can pile in with a model from B, models in B cannot pile into coherency due to A being in the way. What happens?

MagicJuggler wrote:Suppose casualties were allocated in an assault, and while unit C can pile in with a model from B, models in B cannot pile into coherency due to A being in the way. What happens?

If after both pile in moves are made, no one is in B2B then the combat ends. (This is also in the FaQ)

but if unit C can get to B2B through consolidation, then the fight continues, and B piles in "Just like when defenders react to being assaulted" P. 40

Reaper: Gotcha. What I was asking is what happens if part of a unit cannot pile in...

*Giggle* I love stupid tricks, and I think the BRB has validated one I am interested in.

If a part of the unit can not pile in then you simply have to stay in coherency, as the enemy piles into you.

If you both do not have any models in B2B after both pile in moves, then the combat is over and the units are free to act how they please.

Reaper. My question is:

Suppose a unit takes casualties that it no longer is incoherency. Part of the unit can pile in, the other part cannot. What happens? Do I pile out to regain coherency before piling back in, or what?

The requirement to pile in would override the coherency requirement, so you pile in as much as possible each phase

Where, exactly, does it say that nos?

Pile in is a normal movement ("This follows the same rules as moving assaulting models"). You cannot willingly move out of coherency as stated in the assault movement rules

Specifically,

• The most important one is that each model must end
its assault move in coherency with another model in
its own unit that has already moved.

Yes, so you move the models closest in first, maintaining coherency "with models that have already moved". You then cannot move any more models in, so you either break a rule you have to break (as you cannot follow that bullet with the first model to move, either none may move or you move all) anyway whichh stikll complies with the spirit of the rule (everyone moves as fast as possible to get in btb / engaged) or you dont move anyone, ever, with pilein.

What i was getting at is that does not 'override' the coherency rules.

You move them as close to the enemy unit "as possible" Since you cannot willingly break coherency (as stated in the assault rules), you must move as many into base to base as possible without breaking coherency. Unless I've vastly misread that anyway, I don't think I've ever personally had this situation come up.

Regardless, I don't see how breaking the 'most important one' of maintaining coherency for the less important 'as many as possible' makes any sense at all.

Then again, I will admit that I am decidedly lacking in dealing with complex assaults like this as they simply don't seem to crop up that much in my games (and I don't commonly weave my units in a way that would cause this).

Note the condition - "that has already moved. "

You only care abotu coherency to other models that have already moved.

You are forced to move as far as possible into btb / engaged / as close to the enemy when following the rules - nothing there allows you to move away from the enemy to bring models that have yet to move into coherency.

So the unit would leave the trapped models behind and then be forced to restore coherency as soon as it's possible (as per the unit coherency rules)?

Sounds like it. Hence saying given you have to break the bullet point you posted anyway (as unlike when making an assault move there is no closest to cloest THEN follow bullets requirement) when making any pile in move you either leave them be OR follow the clear spirit of ALL the assault rules, and simply move the out of coherency models as fast as possible towards combat, making sure they keep coherency with themselves.

I have only seen this happen once - a 50 man blob squad that was spread in a thin line. Its not a common occurence

Best part of that game was a sarge was literally 30" away from the combat when he failed morale, and that was the sarge that got shot by the commisars bolt pistol....best shot in the galaxy, that one