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I noticed that almost all of the other gods such as the Eldar gods and the remaining C'tan have an avatar of themselves that can be summoned and used in battle

but I noticed that the Chaos Gods seem to not have an avatar; So why don't they; sure Greater Daemons represent their god in both appearance and style but its not the same as having your actual god

Of the Warp based Gods I think only Khaine has an actual Avatar - the others manifest their power through Daemons or equivalents . Even then its only a fragment of the remains of Khaine.

C'Tan are creatures of the Material Realm and IIRC have bodies constructed so that a fraction of their being are confined in it - again a bit like the xtrusion of a Warp God as a Daemon.

Only Khaine of the Warp-spawned deities has an actual avatar, and it wasn't exactly a consensual thing on Khaine's part.

Mr Morden wrote:Of the Warp based Gods I think only Khaine has an actual Avatar - the others manifest their power through Daemons or equivalents . Even then its only a fragment of the remains of Khaine.

C'Tan are creatures of the Material Realm and IIRC have bodies constructed so that a fraction of their being are confined in it - again a bit like the xtrusion of a Warp God as a Daemon.

My friend told me that the nightbringer in Dawn of War was an avatar of the Nightbringer which was he was able to be destroyed by the giant explosion

In the sense that an Avatar is a small part of the greater creature yes but as I see it thats just the same as a Daemon - normal or Greater?

It might just be a bit of terminology rather than actual differences here?

I have not seen that bit of Dawn of War so could be wrong I guess..........

Great Unclean Ones are avatars of Nurgle, as in they are actually miniaturised versions of him. The other Greater Daemons are simply very powerful gribblies.

PresidentOfAsia wrote:I noticed that almost all of the other gods such as the Eldar gods and the remaining C'tan have an avatar of themselves that can be summoned and used in battle

but I noticed that the Chaos Gods seem to not have an avatar; So why don't they; sure Greater Daemons represent their god in both appearance and style but its not the same as having your actual god.

What, Greater Daemons not enough?

Brother Coa wrote:

PresidentOfAsia wrote:I noticed that almost all of the other gods such as the Eldar gods and the remaining C'tan have an avatar of themselves that can be summoned and used in battle

but I noticed that the Chaos Gods seem to not have an avatar; So why don't they; sure Greater Daemons represent their god in both appearance and style but its not the same as having your actual god.

What, Greater Daemons not enough?

Oh god Coa, we agree! Yes, the Greater Daemons are their avatars in the mortal world. They are literally part of their god, a small portion of their masters power embodied as an image of him/her/it.

Why dont Gork and Mork have avatars?

Aren't the Stompas "supposed" to be their avatars?

Saintspirit wrote:Aren't the Stompas "supposed" to be their avatars?

By that same logic - Titans are Emperor's Avatar's.

Brother Coa wrote:

Saintspirit wrote:Aren't the Stompas "supposed" to be their avatars?

By that same logic - Titans are Omnissiah's Avatar's.

Fixed.

Right, thanks

P.S. Emperor is Omnissiah.

Brother Coa wrote:

Saintspirit wrote:Aren't the Stompas "supposed" to be their avatars?

By that same logic - Titans are Emperor's Avatar's.

Omissiah seems more appropriate, to be honest.

"After the Emperor formed the Imperium, he engendered support with the Martian Mechanicum, an already existing empire. On Mars, he was commonly seen as the Omnissiah, the earthly representative of the Machine God."

Yes, but I am still right.

Brother Coa wrote:

Saintspirit wrote:Aren't the Stompas "supposed" to be their avatars?

By that same logic - Titans are Emperor's Avatar's.

Well, I meant that is how the orks thinks. It's not necessarily true, but then again, if an ork believe they can, they can...

Brother Coa wrote:

Saintspirit wrote:Aren't the Stompas "supposed" to be their avatars?

By that same logic - Titans are Emperor's Avatar's.

The emperor isn't a god though

SSsilverskullSS wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Saintspirit wrote:Aren't the Stompas "supposed" to be their avatars?

By that same logic - Titans are Emperor's Avatar's.

The emperor isn't a god though

Define 'God'.

iproxtaco wrote:

SSsilverskullSS wrote:

The emperor isn't a god though

Define 'God'.

Very true...

I could appear in primitive society. Light up my lighter and I am a God to them

Brother Coa wrote:"After the Emperor formed the Imperium, he engendered support with the Martian Mechanicum, an already existing empire. On Mars, he was commonly seen as the Omnissiah, the earthly representative of the Machine God."

Yes, but I am still right.

The Omnissiah the Void Dragon

Necrons: 2
Imperium: 3.15 x 10^23

To think yourself as an avatar of the emperor is heresy my friend.

SSsilverskullSS wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Saintspirit wrote:Aren't the Stompas "supposed" to be their avatars?

By that same logic - Titans are Emperor's Avatar's.

The emperor isn't a god though

*Ghasps*

iproxtaco wrote:Oh god Coa, we agree! Yes, the Greater Daemons are their avatars in the mortal world. They are literally part of their god, a small portion of their masters power embodied as an image of him/her/it.

Greater Daemons have entirely separate consciousness and are more "static" than the Gods though. I wouldn't consider them true avatars, especially since they have been known to try to betray them, like Skarbrand, and the strongest Lord of Change only serves Tzeentch because Tzeentch is the last being around who knows its true name.

I wouldn't really consider them true Avatars, personally. Though I don't think we need anything more than the Greater Daemons.

Void__Dragon wrote:Greater Daemons have entirely separate consciousness and are more "static" than the Gods though. I wouldn't consider them true avatars, especially since they have been known to try to betray them, like Skarbrand, and the strongest Lord of Change only serves Tzeentch because Tzeentch is the last being around who knows its true name.

I wouldn't really consider them true Avatars, personally. Though I don't think we need anything more than the Greater Daemons.

None of these points tell against them being avatars. A greater daemon is formed as the patron deity in microcosm, and develops from there. They are not a 'physically' remote yet connected part of the wider conciousness.

Not all aligned daemons are avatars/offshoots of a patron deity, daemon princes being the obvious example.

The Avatars of Khaine differ from the Greater Daemons of the ruinous powers in a number of ways. There is no longer a source/core/major fragment of Khaine as such, as his essence is fully invested in the avatars. Conjecture: Suggestions in Path of the Seer of a pan-craftworld infinity circuit could allow for a homogenising effect upon the Avatars.

Splog wrote:None of these points tell against them being avatars. A greater daemon is formed as the patron deity in microcosm, and develops from there. They are not a 'physically' remote yet connected part of the wider conciousness.

Not all aligned daemons are avatars/offshoots of a patron deity, daemon princes being the obvious example.

The Avatars of Khaine differ from the Greater Daemons of the ruinous powers in a number of ways. There is no longer a source/core/major fragment of Khaine as such, as his essence is fully invested in the avatars. Conjecture: Suggestions in Path of the Seer of a pan-craftworld infinity circuit could allow for a homogenising effect upon the Avatars.

Do you consider the Primarchs avatars of the Emperor?

At best, Greater Daemons could be considered avatars of their will, but not a true avatar of their consciousness, which is the definition I think of when discussing "avatars."

Though of itself it would be cool to have, for instance, a Nyarlathotep to Tzeentch's Azathoth, avatars of the Ruinous Powers would be rather redundant on the tabletop, which is where it matters.

To properly fit the fluff, they would have to be unbalancingly powerful, to be workable they'd have to be no significantly better than a greater daemon, which would rather water-down the concept.

Azure wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:"After the Emperor formed the Imperium, he engendered support with the Martian Mechanicum, an already existing empire. On Mars, he was commonly seen as the Omnissiah, the earthly representative of the Machine God."

Yes, but I am still right.

The Omnissiah the Void Dragon

This is a hard one.

The Emperor put the Dragon on Mars in order to create a technological source that was not on Earth.. Hence, the Mechanicum... So, although the Machine God is technically the Void Dragon it was due to the Emperor's acts of imprisoning the dragon on Mars during the 3rd (or 12th...) century that turned it into the "Machine God"...

With that in mind I would say that the Mechanicum was mislead when they choose to call the Emperor the Omnissiah. He wasn't it's representative; He was it's jailer. Instead, it sounds like maybe the Omnissiah hasn't really been revealed yet and most likely will turn out to be the current Fabricator-General.

Void__Dragon wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Oh god Coa, we agree! Yes, the Greater Daemons are their avatars in the mortal world. They are literally part of their god, a small portion of their masters power embodied as an image of him/her/it.

Greater Daemons have entirely separate consciousness and are more "static" than the Gods though. I wouldn't consider them true avatars, especially since they have been known to try to betray them, like Skarbrand, and the strongest Lord of Change only serves Tzeentch because Tzeentch is the last being around who knows its true name.

I wouldn't really consider them true Avatars, personally. Though I don't think we need anything more than the Greater Daemons.

They don't have entirely separate consciousnesses, but other than that, I agree with what you say. Perhaps not true Avatars in the sense of Khaine, but they are facets/images of their God given Daemonic form. There's no need to create anything else.

iproxtaco wrote:

SSsilverskullSS wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Saintspirit wrote:Aren't the Stompas "supposed" to be their avatars?

By that same logic - Titans are Emperor's Avatar's.

The emperor isn't a god though

Define 'God'.

A god is an immortal being, the last time I checked the emperor is not immortal, in fact the only reason why he is alive is because the golden throne is keeping him alive

But they have Avatars! You know the Slaanesh one on Cadia during the 13th!