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Heyy everyone, Thanks for checking this out.

I was wondering if someone could do a critique of my list. Just to inform you, I play competitively but not to the point where I need to allocate wounds down to the last detail or play on clauses that you can sometimes find.

1. Autarch - 140pts.
w/ Eldar jetbike, Mandiblaster, Laser lance, Fusion gun.
-Pretty standard for a Jetdar army, 6 S6 attacks on the charge and helps with reserves if I need him to.

2. Farseer - 185pts.
w/ Runes of warding, Runes of witnessing, Spirit stones, Eldar jetbike, Fortune, Doom.
-Again, pretty standard, keeps the Council afloat and can doom something that I really need to die.

3. Warlock Squad - 440pts.
w/ 8 Warlocks, Embolden, Enhance, 6x Destructor, Eldar jetbikes.
- Perhaps a bit sub-par when it comes to Jetseer Councils: No spears because I need the attacks I feel (and mech isn't as prevalent around here as in other areas.) and Super-Destructor-Spam for all those Orks...

4. Guardian Jetbike Squadron - 281pts.
w/ 9 members, 3 Shuriken cannons, Warlock; Embolden, Singing spear.
- Standard loadout for jetbikers, if a little larger than a normal squad, poses a threat to both infantry and vehicles.

5. Dire Avengers - 252pts.
w/ 10 members, Exarch; twin catapults, Bladestorm, Wave Serpent; Twin-linked shuriken cannons
-Can be devestating when bladestorming. Idea is to bladestorm, then next turn jump in the Serpent and scoot to an objective.

6. Fire Prism - 150pts.
w/ Holo-fields

7. Fire Prism - 150pts.
w/ Holo-fields

8. Fire prism - 150pts.
w/ Holo-fields
-These are my main horde control and tank popper if they have to be. Hang back and shoot, easy right?


Total = 1748pts.

I'd just like to add that this is using the models that I currently own, however, picking up a few additionals should be no problem if needed.

Thanks!

Iranna.

Fast stuff! I like the HUGE seer council going on. Personally I never found them that effective, however ive heard that in large numbers they pwn.

Other than that i can find no real problems with this list other than if you were to play an objective game then you might be wanting for more scoring units. 2 might not be enough.

Jetseers can be awesome and terrible at the same time, you just have to keep them from getting tarpitted!

Thanks for the comment,

Iranna.

Nice looking mech list. Do you find only 2 troops is problematic? I know theyre pretty tough units but when it comes to objective holding and so forth I imagine it gets tricky.

Reanimator wrote:Nice looking mech list. Do you find only 2 troops is problematic? I know their pretty tough units but when it comes to objective holding and so forth I imagine it gets tricky.

To be honest, I'm not really looking to hold objectives: I'm going for the kill and being as aggressive as I can with it and try to catch my opponent off guard.

However, if it is an objective game, my troops have the speed and durability to turbo-boost/Flat out towards some objectives and I'll at least contest.

Thanks for the comment!

Iranna.

I'd reccomend breaking your Guardian Jetbike Squads into 2 squads of 4 guys

- 2x ( 3 GJB + Warlock- cannon, spear, embolden )

That overall saves you some points, and gives you more flexibility with your troops (3 choices instead of 2)

Squads of 3 are also easier to duck behind LOS blocking terrain and avoid assaults then massive 10 man squads of Bikes.

akaean wrote:I'd reccomend breaking your Guardian Jetbike Squads into 2 squads of 4 guys

- 2x ( 3 GJB + Warlock- cannon, spear, embolden )

That overall saves you some points, and gives you more flexibility with your troops (3 choices instead of 2)

Squads of 3 are also easier to duck behind LOS blocking terrain and avoid assaults then massive 10 man squads of Bikes.

This was originally what I had planned, I would reserve them until turn 3-4 (hopefully) and cap some objectives, however, I tend to find that they just don't have the staying power to camp an objective if the game goes past turn 5.

That's why I bunched them all up, to try and make them a credible threat which will take some pressure off of my council and to hit an objective if I really have to.

Thanks!

Iranna.

At 1750 that lack of troops is going to hurt you. A smart opponent in an objective match will put all his anti tank on your Serpent and rest on your jetbike squad and once they are down the best you are looking at is a draw unless you manage to table them (and even that isn't enough in some tourney missions).

Key flaws I see outside if that:

Jetbikes - Bigger is not better. The footprint of those jetbikes is so large taht you have suddenly become pieplate, swarmfire, and assault bait. Stick to 7 man or 4 Man units.

Dire Avengers - Bladestorm loadout without a guide/doom seer to complete them is setting yourself up for failure.

Autarch - 185 of meh. His is decent.. on the first round of combat... if you get the charge. Otherwise his is 6 s3 non-power weapon attacks and can be instagibbed by a single s6 attack.


Overall you are presenting your target with 6 targets at 1750pts, and only 4 of which are vehicles. This will allow you opponent plenty of opportunity to focus fire and easy priority selection.

With this list I believe I would desperately want spirit stones on that wave serpent. Could pay for that by cutting one destructor. 5 is still enough to break a blob of 30 orks.

I'd ditch the holofields on the prisms. Statistically they don't help keep them shooting much for 105 points.

What to buy with that?
The spirit stones.
A 3 man squad of jetbikes as a sneaky objective grabber OR a vyper to help get vehicle cover saves and for blocking.
Spear for the farseer so the deathstar can pretty reliably kill a rhino in shooting if it needs to.
Uh... 18 points left...
Chin cannon or missile launcher on the wave serpent?

Could also just cut one holofield and buy everything but the additional jetbikes/Vyper.


At a higher level... gosh that's not very many units on the table.

cosmid wrote:I'd ditch the holofields on the prisms. Statistically they don't help keep them shooting much for 105 points.

This is a horrifically bad idea and sadly common misconception. The goal of holofields isn't to "keep them shooting" it's to "keep them alive". A shaken fire prism will still be a threat the next turn.. hell a prism with it's gun ripped off is still a threat to the very last moments of the game. A weaponless Prism can still Ram/tankshock, provide cover, contest objectives, block path of movement, etc etc etc. Holofields should be in this list even more then others since the they are goign to see a LOT of anti-tank love thanks to only 1 Serpent.

Thanks for the comments guys!

@ BlueDagger:

The general consensus is to go for smaller jetbikes, I'll give it a go and see how it works out and if I don't like it I'll toy around with something else.

Well I have the doom part covered for the Dire Avengers, and with a 3+ to hit I'm not too worried about the To Hit rolls. (I say this and my next game I'll roll nothing but 1s and 2s).

I think you miscounted with the Autarch, he's only 140pts. His only job is to add that extra "Ooomph" to the council on the charge. It's my experience that the lack of power weapons on the Warlocks and Farseer can make them quite lacklustre during some assaults. Also, he let's me play some reserve games if I need to.

@cosmid:

If I don't get first turn I'm reserving the serpent and moving Flat-out onto the field. And if I do then I'll just falt-out towards the enemy. Either way, I'm getting a 4+ cover save and I'm hoping that the council and Prisms will keep my opponents guns busy,

Again, thanks guys.

Iranna.

I think the idea is that she's moved so fast that the cover saves protect her then to launch a simltainious assault on whatever's in front of her killing it in one go before they get to any objectives. However this tactic might not work against dark eldar as they are the only thing faster than eldar so perhaps the splitting of the troops choices is a good idea.

Also i think you should consider that even with holo-fields,
Fire prisms don't stand up well to oncoming fire because even though your opponent will probably only inflict stunned, it puts you out of action for a whole turn. So spirit stones would solve this problem.

But where to get the points i have no idea. I wouldn't remove the holo's as bluedagger said as coupled with stones eldar tanks are vertually indestructable so maybe cut some points on the HQ's? the fusion gun is not really required as the 3 fire prisms should deal with any Armour they come up against. so that saves 10 points and 6 destructors is a bit overkill i think 3 or 4 should handle the job just fine so that saves (assuming you have 4) another 20 points for a total of 30. That's enought for the spirit stones.

Eh rereading my post I didn't mention the elephant in the room.

You have 765pt of a 1750 list soaked into a single unit. A single failed Fortune means that unit is going to get wrecked, and wrecked hard (statistically speaking of course).

On the Autarch, I own one and have run him several times. You will be shocked at how many times he either A) Fails to hit worth a darn B) you get stuck in CC and he becomes a liability or C) You get assaulted and he becomes a liability.

Statistically speaking if you do any heavy reserves with this few unit you are going to piecemeal yourself to death because even a single 1 or 2 on round 2 will mean the small numbers wil see even more focus fire.

Here is how I would do it (keeping with similar units and theme):

Eldrad (With DA squad in Range of the Seer council for backup powers support or back with the Prisms for double guide)
Farseer w/ Stones, RoWard, doom, Fortune, JB
6x Warlocks w/ Embolden, Enhance, 4x Flamers

3x GJB w/ Cannon + Warlock w/ Spear, Embolden
3x GJB w/ Cannon + Warlock w/ Spear, Embolden
3x GJB w/ Cannon + Warlock w/ Spear, Embolden

5 DA + Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Lasers
5 DA + Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Lasers

Fire Prism w/ Holofields, Spirit Stones
Fire Prism w/ Holofields, Spirit Stones
Fire Prism

This boosts you up to 5 very fast scoring units, seer council, 5 tanks, Psy power redundancy, and Eldrad's Divination.

I recommend dropping the autarch, a couple warlocks, and the bikes, to get 10 more dire avengers in a serpent with eldrad ulthran

drop the locks and gaurds on jet bikes and go for either banshees or avengers.

if banshees and you have the points take yreil if DA go with 2 farseers or 1 and eldrad and a serpant for wich ever you chose

A recommendation from one person to drop 2 massive units to take a bladestorm unit with Eldrad (Still only 2 troop choices, more killpoints, a weaker council, and the same nubmer of units)

Another recommendation to drop a troop and council to take Yriel and banshees (Illegal with only 1 troops) or to take a bladestorm unit with Eldrad *see above*



Come on guys...

I really dont see the point in taking 3 man units with an embolden lock. For less than the cost of 3 of those you can get 2 DAVU squads and in Scatter serpents.

Is Eldrad really needed? Downgrading him to a plain old Jetseer with fortune would net you 2 more Jetlocks. But the last suggested list is more like a 1900pts list...

While Jetlocks really isnt that impressive anymore I would go with something like this with your initial list in mind.

Farseer (Bike+Stones+Doom+Fortune+RoWit) = 170

Farseer (Bike+Fortune+Roward) = 130

8xWarlocks (Bikes+4xDestructor+Enhance+Embolden) = 420

Troops
5xDAs = 60
Serpent (scatter) = 115

5xDAs = 60
Serpent (scatter) = 115

5xDAs = 60
Serpent (scatter) = 115

5xDAs = 60
Serpent (S.Cannon) = 100

Heavy:
3xPrism = 345

Why do people hate eldrad so much. He's a beast and way better than an autarch will ever be. He does cost more but eldrad will actually Do something. Autarchs don't do Anything. Besides 2 DA units with doomed targets kick ass. Jetbikes don't do very much at all.

I agree with helvost autarchs are not much better than a standard banshee in melee witha power weapon they are just str3 still so not consistant if you really want a melee beast for the banshees again yriel will be your man for a few more points you really get a better deal.

and yeah why the hate for eldrad he maybe a little expesive but hes a monster in the eldar army 3 powers a turn and d3+1 game start ajustments are nice on top of 3 powers a turn on the seer abilities and 3+ invul i dont see a down side especially in 15+ games

tedurur wrote:I really dont see the point in taking 3 man units with an embolden lock. For less than the cost of 3 of those you can get 2 DAVU squads and in Scatter serpents.

I am convinced that 3+ an embolden lock is the best set up for small guardian jetbikes. Yes hes expensive, but what he brings to the table is extremely important to small scoring units.
The entire reason you take him is for embolden. By adding a warlock to the squad it does several things to help the squad stay on the board and capture objectives- the primary prerogative of jetbike squads.
1) adds a fourth member which means they need to lose 3 members instead of 2 before they cannot regroup
2) lets you re roll failed leadership checks (probably from shooting). ld8 isn't something you want your scoring units to rely on, and with the move to TLOS... you'll probably take some hits every now and then. Reducing the chance of your scoring unit falling 3d6 and off the board forces your opponent to divert more fire power into the unit if hes determined for them to go down.

Aside from helping the squad with leadership issues, the warlock has access to the singing spear, a weapon which hits as hard as a las cannon for 3 points. While he may not use it often, I've often found my Jetbikes adding their fire power to help shake / stun enemy tanks, and the Warlock is crucial to that strategy.

3 man jetbike squads are just to frail. without the warlock they break easily and more often, are easier to wipe out and have less of a ranged impact. The way I put it to my friends when I play against them and explain that the Warlock has bs4, is that "hes better than the scum he rides with"

As to the DAVU squads, I don't think anybody will sit down and tell you that they aren't pound for pound the most competitive troop choice Eldar can put on the field, but I personally find DAVU to be mind numbing and not interesting, and I'm sure there are others who also share my sentiment. I also assert that small Guardian Jetbike Squads come in as the number 2 troop choice you can field in terms of cost/benefit and ability to do their job.

the Jetbikes also have a playstyle that is both refreshing and fun to use- especially if you don't always want to spam tanks all the time. They have fun movement rules, some cool weapons (singing spear, shuri cannon) and they easily make a solid addition to a hybrid eldar list which focuses on speed. They do especially well when the list already has hybrid elements- such as a jetseer council to divert some of the small arms pressure from your scoring bikes.

3 points for a spear definitly worth it . if you want to keep the JB squad spear is a must for the lock


could also trim the Lock JB squad get another gaurdian one and some ranger or pathfinder they got the range and with all your speed an attack they should be low priority keeping them alive.

1.) I used to really love jet bike squads, now even bigger ones are sort of Meh. I think if you can afford it use a guardian or DA squad (even 5 man) and put them in a transport. Part it on an objective, it is much harder to kill or move and on the last turn you can turbo boost and tank shock to take an objective --- you can't do that with bikes.
2.) I think fire prisms are good anti horde tanks and if facing Necrons (which with a new codex on the horizon - may be seen more - our local group sports a Necron player and even with his old codex manages to do okay). The fireprism is the only vehicle that is going to touch a monolith. That being said, I think a war walker squad (3) with scatter lasers will do more for a horde army than the fire prisms ( esp. if guided). Plus they are harder to take out or stop from shooting in a turn, as a fire prism needs only to be shaken or stunned to stop it from shooting, where as your war walkers would have to be stunned three times to stop all the firepower from the squad. Even if you play all mech you can always reserve them and outflank or have them on at the beginning and scout move them at the begining to try to get better positioning.
3.) The Autarch, if you are going to keep him with your seer council, I would take a power sword over the lance as once in combat, a stregnth 3 hit will be hard to wound many of the T4 armies, then give them their save and forgetta bout it.
4.) If taking seer council on bikes, I like to have two with embolden with spears and enhance with spear, then the others with swords with destructor - usually only 3, many times the farseer will have a spear too. I like the spears to try to take out targets or vehicles from a distance, then charge if I need to, just my opinion though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I agree with the assesment of the Warlock with spear for the jet bike squads. If I take them it is usually a 3 man squad (1 with shuri cannon) and a lock with spear and embolden. They are more likely to survive and do something in the game. Well worth the extra points for the lock.

I don't like spears on my jetseer squad. In many applications, they are planning on multi-assaulting 2 or more vehicles. If they throw their spears at one and kill it, they can no longer assault anything. Giant waste.

racta wrote:I don't like spears on my jetseer squad. In many applications, they are planning on multi-assaulting 2 or more vehicles. If they throw their spears at one and kill it, they can no longer assault anything. Giant waste.

That's when you assault the unit that just spilled out