Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Presuming you're comfortable with,

a) getting all your models through ebay
b) living without the prospect of updates, erratas, or new releases
c) not being able to walk into an LGS and instantly find a willing opponent


Was the system actually fun, and deep, and therefore worth pursuing by someone who didn't play it while it was supported but is currently interested in starting a new fantasy skirmish game?


I mean, if you think about it, something like Mordheim suffers from all of the drawbacks listed above, but is still reasonably popular and something I would recommend without hesitation to any interested party.

I'd say yes, if you like the models enough that you'd consider buying them anyway, and if you have friends willing to take the same plunge. If you like the models enough that you don't care if you never get to play a game then that works as well.

You can get the rules and take a look at some of the faction cards here
To play the game you're going to need all the cards that the models come with (the 3rd edition rule book has an extensive spell list, but doesn't cover everything I don't think), which might be even harder than finding the models especially with the re-caster market.

I haven't been living in the same city (or province for a while) as the guys I know that play, so I've only had maybe a dozen games, so we didn't really get past the "everybody gets into a scrum in the middle of the board" stage. It does have rules for campaigns and character advancement (which I haven't looked at closely). The game itself is potentially quite involved, with plenty of model and ability interactions that Warmahordes players love, but without the caster/warlock reliance.

This could become even more rambling so I'll just leave it here. Suffice to say I have four and a bit Confrontation forces any of which I'd be happy to use again even knowing that I'll likely never see any updates...ever.

Actually, I tell a lie, the 3rd edition rule book didn't cover campaigns or character advancement at all. When all the rules were in little booklets that came in the blisters, there were some entitled "Incarnation" that covered character advancement (I think).

Confrontation (3rd edition) is a really good game, the game mechanics are easy and fun.

For the cards and stats, some websites have all the material you need (scans, etc...)

I played this game from its begining and stopped when the fourth edition was released. The campaign system was developped in a supplement called "Dogs of War", and was very interesting.

Yes confrontation is in my opinion the best fantasy skirmish game made as of yet. It requires some tactics and understanding of what you and your enemies army is capable of.

The vast amount of different miniautres, abilities, and spells means you can build a different force almost everytime you play.

Dogs of War is the campaign book that allows you to gain experience as a warband.

Also it might not be completely dead. Legacy has begun to release miniatures again and if sales are consistent might look at re-launching the game.

They are only being sold at the moment through CMON

Thanks guys, keep it coming.

I'm starting to get excited about possibly playing this. I've managed to buy a copy of the 3rd edition rulebook on ebay (I know it's floating around already as a free .pdf, but I'd prefer a hard copy). The next step is convincing the members of my gaming circle to join in.

There are still quite a few things I'm trying to wrap my head around:

- how many models would you say are needed for an adequate, basic game? The lower the entry cost, the more likely I'll be able to convince people to play

- what kind of terrain should be used?

- were there overpowered and/or underpowered armies, or did the sheer amount of choices in each army mean that everybody was able to come up with solid forces?

- I've heard that alliances between different forces are a basic part of the rules; is this true, and does it mean that you can effectively collect units from two or more armies and still be allowed to field them all in a single game?

To me all armies can be competitive, but like any game some miniatures are better than others for the points.

Yes alliance rules are built in so you are allied to bring allied troops from armies you have an alliance with...believe its 25% for allies.

standard game used to be 400 pts. Which is a max of 20 models and a min of 5. Typically you will end up at the 10-15 model range.

28mm fantasy type terrain is fine. I use miniature building authority pre-painted buildings, hills, and woods....somethimes a stream with a bridge...in general standard 28mm fantasy type stuff will work fine. Typically its not a terrain heavy game.

I find I rarely use allies as usually I can easily find 400pts I want to bring from all within same force.

chaos45 wrote:
I find I rarely use allies as usually I can easily find 400pts I want to bring from all within same force.

The reason I asked is that I've been snapping a few Rackham models based purely on loving the sculpts, and I was happily surprised by the possibility that I could actually use them all.

Been grabbing the "good" Dwarves mostly, but also some Cadwallon and some Goblins. I'm assuming the Goblins won't be able to ally with anyone, but are the Dwarves and Cadwallons potential allies? Can your 25% allied section be composed of multiple armies (eg. 75% + 10% + 10% + 5%) or is it strictly a two way alliance (75% + 25%)?

Your allies allowance is 30% of your total points and can be any combination of factions that your main force can ally with (as long as the various elements can also ally together).

Tir-Na-Bor Dwarves can only ally with the Griffins.
I'm actually not sure how the Cadwallon guys work with the other factions. They aren't mentioned in the rulebook, I assumed they were mercenaries, but they don't seem to have the mercenary rule on their cards.

Mercenaries can be hired by any army and count as allies.

No-Dan-Kar goblins can ally with Orcs and Devourers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and characters can only make up 50% of your total, including their spells and artifacts.

A 10/15 models warband is all you usually need (except for the Wolfens/Devourers wher 8/10 models is enough) for a regular confrontation game, less if you play Dogs of War. You can get someting fine for about 20 USD on ebay

There are also factions within factions (wolfen packs, Orc tribe) each with a set of rules allowing you to play the same army in different ways.

Cadwallon figures ally based on their guild.

Think that came out in a cry havoc....would really have to dig to find other information on it.

So for Cadwallon you can either play a cadwallon army, or a cadwallon guild specific army. If its a guild army it can ally with certain other factions based on what guild.

Basically you have good/neutral/evil aligned guilds within the cadwallon army since its mainly mercenaries.

Also any figures with mercenary can be brought as allies for pretty much any army.

Altruizine wrote:Presuming you're comfortable with,

a) getting all your models through ebay
b) living without the prospect of updates, erratas, or new releases
c) not being able to walk into an LGS and instantly find a willing opponent


Was the system actually fun, and deep, and therefore worth pursuing by someone who didn't play it while it was supported but is currently interested in starting a new fantasy skirmish game?


I mean, if you think about it, something like Mordheim suffers from all of the drawbacks listed above, but is still reasonably popular and something I would recommend without hesitation to any interested party.

Highlighted point.

Get 4th edition not 3rd. 3rd is great if you have an existing group. 4th edition is a good substitute for Warhammer. There are only five armies available, and none are fully complete, but all the bulk units are there plus plenty of characters. For extra characters there are 3rd edition sculpts and ebay, for unreleased units there are other 28mm manufacturers.

Get it here, and get it in bulk. 5000pt armies (about the same as 2000pt Warhammer) is the way to go, and you can pick them up: high quality prepaint at a stupidly low price.

Umm well get 4th Edition Age of Ragnorak if you want a crap game.

3rd Ed is a way better game, and them dropping it is the main reason they went out of business.

Because they switched from a solid rules set with good miniatures...to a crap rules set with pre-paints.

All Age of Rag is, is put a bunch of minis on the table roll lots of dice and remove models.

While confrontation 3 is a skirmish game with a ton of options and alot more thought in how you play.

chaos45 wrote:Umm well get 4th Edition Age of Ragnorak if you want a crap game.

3rd Ed is a way better game, and them dropping it is the main reason they went out of business.

Because they switched from a solid rules set with good miniatures...to a crap rules set with pre-paints.

All Age of Rag is, is put a bunch of minis on the table roll lots of dice and remove models.

While confrontation 3 is a skirmish game with a ton of options and alot more thought in how you play.

You remind me of... me!

I can't disagree with anything you wrote... I do wish C3 was still around, or that there was a game like it out there that was still 'alive' and had a future...

I'm only really interested in 3rd edition. I don't need to find a substitute for WFB when I've got three huge WFB armies that would gather dust if I neglected the system.

I'm much more interested in a Mordheim substitute.

Incidentally, how long does an average game take (I guess at the 400 point level)? It is relatively short and painless, like Mordheim? Possible to complete multiple games in a night, etc.?

4th edition works on a much larger level. Think about it, 15 models a side Warhammer consisting of a hero or two and some basic characters would suck.

I find that 4th Ed Scorpion faction offers a lot of tactical play missing in most games, and the background to the faceless faction is really well done. Griffon faction also though its just Empire with more praying. Wolfen can be stale and need building on. I have not played enough Ram to make a judgement, though they are tough. Lion doesnt have a lot of troops so it will be a while before I can get enough to proxy. Thats all there is, but five factions are enough IMHO, put down a little money to buy into all five and you have a lot of gaming preset for you. Quality is good too, I was really impressed with some of the models.

I have not played 3rd Ed, but then all I would need are the rules, yes. I certainly have enough miniatures.

Agreed on Rackham dropping the ball though.

Your first game will prolly take abit more time as your learning the rules. I would say for a game with 2 people that know the rules prolly 2 hours at most.

Think old tournament play wsa 1.5hr to 2 hr time limit per round at 400pts.

In all honesty with how the game works you will prolly be in hand to hand combat in turn 1 if not turn 2.

The game is often decided by the end of turn 2 or 3.

Orlanth wrote:4th edition works on a much larger level. Think about it, 15 models a side Warhammer consisting of a hero or two and some basic characters would suck.

I find that 4th Ed Scorpion faction offers a lot of tactical play missing in most games, and the background to the faceless faction is really well done. Griffon faction also though its just Empire with more praying. Wolfen can be stale and need building on. I have not played enough Ram to make a judgement, though they are tough. Lion doesnt have a lot of troops so it will be a while before I can get enough to proxy. Thats all there is, but five factions are enough IMHO, put down a little money to buy into all five and you have a lot of gaming preset for you. Quality is good too, I was really impressed with some of the models.

I have not played 3rd Ed, but then all I would need are the rules, yes. I certainly have enough miniatures.

Agreed on Rackham dropping the ball though.

I'll agree with you on the prepaint plastics. Without having any baggage going into this, I find them to be great models.
Most would benefit greatly from just a wash, and a detail touchup.
I picked up a ton cheap at GenCon 2010.

Also, www.miniaturemarket.com in the U.S. still carries a bunch, including the Wolfen army box.

I got the impression from the rules I read that it was kind of in between Warhammer and skirmish in scale, whereas the older versions were closer to Mordheim/Necromunda.

The Wolfen Army box is an example of what not to get.

Miniature quality for that set was appalling.


The model on the left is a Bloodthrirsty Predator from the unit box, the other is from the Army Box.

Only the Wolfen suffer this way, the Lion and Ram army box units are fine.

Pre painted plastic models -wether one like it or not- are not covering enough troop choices IMO. Only the troops that would be used in a large scale wargame were released.

You can still find cheap metal models and the references you'll find would certainly be more interesting in terms of game than the PPP ones.(plus, they are awesome )

Not to mention only a third of the armies existed in 4th edition...

chaos45 wrote:Cadwallon figures ally based on their guild.

Think that came out in a cry havoc....would really have to dig to find other information on it.

So for Cadwallon you can either play a cadwallon army, or a cadwallon guild specific army. If its a guild army it can ally with certain other factions based on what guild.

Basically you have good/neutral/evil aligned guilds within the cadwallon army since its mainly mercenaries.

Also any figures with mercenary can be brought as allies for pretty much any army.

Where can I find the specific governing this?

Alternatively, would you be up to writing me a list of which Cadwallon units are eligible for allying with Dwarves of Tir-Na-Bor?

Currently im travelling for work so dont have access to my Cry Havocs. Im pretty sure thats what it came out in tho.