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A number of armies have Special Characters that let you adjust or Redeploy units once both sides have finished deployment (Eldrad, The Deciever, Lady Malys). I generally interpret this as occurring after infiltrators are placed but before scout moves are made (although before or after scout moves is a bit up in the air).

If an enemy infiltrates a unit somewhere within (or very close to) your deployment zone, is there anything preventing you from redeploying a unit to be right next to them (ie: ~1" away)? While Dawn of War deployment has a rule that requires you to deploy a certain distance from enemy units, this only applies to the player going second, and Pitched Battle and Spearhead have no such restrictions.

I'll give you a couple scenarios. I play DE primarily so Lady Malys' rule is the one I'm the most concerned with. I forget the exact wording but it's along the lines of "After both players have finished deployment you may re-deploy D3 units"

1) Suppose I have first turn and it's Dawn of War deployment. I elect to have everything come on turn 1. My opponent then decides to deploy something, say a Razorback with a squad in it, roughly 6" from the center of the table. Can I use my Re-Deploy to place a squad or 2 of wyches (with haywire grenades) at the forward edge of my deployment zone 6ish" from his tank ready to surround and auto-hit haywire it to death (assuming I don't get siezed on).

2) Suppose it's Pitched Battle deployment and I'm going second. I deploy everything to one side of the board at the front of my deployment zone. My opponent places a unit or 2 of scout bikers in my deployment zone with the intent of using scout + first turn move and assault to get behind my beasts and multi charge my ravagers with auto-hitting melta bombs and krak grenades. Can I use my redeploy to place a beast pack surrounding his scouts (1.01" away) so they won't be able to scout move?

3) If I redeploy a unit to within 12" of an enemy Infiltrator that also has Scout, are they allowed to make a scout move at all? As soon as they start to move they will be moving within 12" of an enemy thus making it an illegal move.

No, there is no such restriction - when they infiltrated they were i na legal position, and as long as you fulfill the requirements for the redeploy ending up 1" away is fine.

1) ASsuming she lets you change Reserve declarations, yes.

2) Erm, how is he placing scouts in your deploiyment zone BEFORE scout moves? I thought redeploy was before scouts, as it states scouts are the last thing before rolling for seize?

3) No, they may not. Same as you can place servoskulls within 12" of an enemy unit to prevent it scouting.

Scout bikes have infiltrate as well Nos so given that in the hypothetical the guy has gone hard on one flank the scouts could well start in his deployment zone.

Thanks for the reply

nosferatu1001 wrote:1) Assuming she lets you change Reserve declarations, yes.

I interpret re-deployment as meaning you start from the beginning with all the options normally available. Her rule says you can put units into reserve, taking them out of reserve/DoW roll on might be a different story though.

nosferatu1001 wrote:2) Erm, how is he placing scouts in your deploiyment zone BEFORE scout moves? I thought redeploy was before scouts, as it states scouts are the last thing before rolling for seize?

The idea is a deploy in a refused flank and he infiltrates next to me (~18" away) in my deployment zone. Does Infiltrate have a restriction preventing you from being in the enemy deployment zone? I play DE so I don't really use infiltrators much because....well........we got mandrakes.

nosferatu1001 wrote:3) No, they may not. Same as you can place servoskulls within 12" of an enemy unit to prevent it scouting.

Works for me.

On the topic of whether scouts or re-deploy goes first, Lady Malys's rule says to do it after both sides have finished deployment. In the deployment rules at the back of the rulebook it states to order of things as:
-Regular Deployment
then
-Place Infiltrators and make Scout moves
then it says something along the lines of:
-Once deployment is complete start the game

To me this indicates that Infiltrating and Scout moves are a part of deployment, albeit with scout moves being the very last part. If Scout says in it's rules that it happens after deployment, then at best I think it's a dice off to see whose "after deploment" is the most "afteriest".

Except "redploy" requires you to have deployed initially; reread the "Reserves" rule and note that putting units into reserve is INSTEAD of deploying them. So you couldnt bring something out of reserve as a "redeploy", as they have not deployed

I forgot they had infiltrate - in which case yes, you could re-deploy around the bikes, as they have made a legal infiltrate and you then redeploy to a legal deployment area. No restriction on infiltrators going into the enemies deployment zone, either.

The only restriction would be if you are required to maintain an X" gap, however that normally only applies to the player deploying second, e.g. in DoW

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:
On the topic of whether scouts or re-deploy goes first, Lady Malys's rule says to do it after both sides have finished deployment. In the deployment rules at the back of the rulebook it states to order of things as:
-Regular Deployment
then
-Place Infiltrators and make Scout moves
then it says something along the lines of:
-Once deployment is complete start the game

To me this indicates that Infiltrating and Scout moves are a part of deployment, albeit with scout moves being the very last part. If Scout says in it's rules that it happens after deployment, then at best I think it's a dice off to see whose "after deploment" is the most "afteriest".

The closest we have to this is the Eldar 'Divination' and the latest Eldar FAQ said this:

Q. With Divination, does the redeployment of units
take place before or after the free movement of units
with the scout special rule?
A. Before. It says 'after both sides have deployed' and
the scouts move happens 'before the first player begins
his first turn'.

So Lady Malys' would re-deploy the units after both sides have been deployed but before any scout moves are made.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Except "redploy" requires you to have deployed initially; reread the "Reserves" rule and note that putting units into reserve is INSTEAD of deploying them. So you couldnt bring something out of reserve as a "redeploy", as they have not deployed

That logic works for me. I guess what was throwing me off was that in the wording of Malys's rule it says that you may "redeploy D3 units, including placing them in reserve", which indicates to me that they count placing a unit in reserve as part of deployment, at least for the purpose of her rule.( ie: it doesn't say "you may redeploy or place in reserve D3 units")

time wizard wrote:So Lady Malys' would re-deploy the units after both sides have been deployed but before any scout moves are made.

That's close enough to work for me. I'm curious if the wording about timing is the same for the 2 rules though, doesn't Eldrad technically "reposition" units not "redeploy" them?

Placing a unit in reserve is part of "deployment", but it is not "deploying" the unit. Yay for GW terms.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Placing a unit in reserve is part of "deployment", but it is not "deploying" the unit. Yay for GW terms.

It gets even weirder with Dawn of War. The units that will come in on 1st turn are neither deployed, nor placed into reserves. They're left in some undefined ether.

Grakmar wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Placing a unit in reserve is part of "deployment", but it is not "deploying" the unit. Yay for GW terms.

It gets even weirder with Dawn of War. The units that will come in on 1st turn are neither deployed, nor placed into reserves. They're left in some undefined ether.

They're actually pretty clear on DoW.

You can deploy up to 2 troops and 1 HQ.

When the game starts, "All units that were not deployed, and were not declared to be in reserve during deployment, must enter the game...".

So just like any other mission, you deploy your forces and at that time declare if any units will not be deployed but will instead be placed in reserve.

You could very easily declare that everything will be in reserve like any other scenario.

The option you only have in DoW is to deploy nothing, reserve nothing, but rather move your entire army on the board on your first turn. Very nice strategy if going second (depending on your army).

time wizard wrote:

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:
On the topic of whether scouts or re-deploy goes first, Lady Malys's rule says to do it after both sides have finished deployment. In the deployment rules at the back of the rulebook it states to order of things as:
-Regular Deployment
then
-Place Infiltrators and make Scout moves
then it says something along the lines of:
-Once deployment is complete start the game

To me this indicates that Infiltrating and Scout moves are a part of deployment, albeit with scout moves being the very last part. If Scout says in it's rules that it happens after deployment, then at best I think it's a dice off to see whose "after deploment" is the most "afteriest".

The closest we have to this is the Eldar 'Divination' and the latest Eldar FAQ said this:

Q. With Divination, does the redeployment of units
take place before or after the free movement of units
with the scout special rule?
A. Before. It says 'after both sides have deployed' and
the scouts move happens 'before the first player begins
his first turn'.

So Lady Malys' would re-deploy the units after both sides have been deployed but before any scout moves are made.

I don't think that's right... if I remember correctly, Lady Malys' rule specifically states that she does this before the roll to sieze is made (someone check the DE codex as I'm going off by memory). So, it would seem to be legal for Lady malys power to redepoy after scout moves are made. If that is true, then this power seems much more effective...

whembly wrote:
I don't think that's right... if I remember correctly, Lady Malys' rule specifically states that she does this before the roll to sieze is made (someone check the DE codex as I'm going off by memory). So, it would seem to be legal for Lady malys power to redepoy after scout moves are made. If that is true, then this power seems much more effective...

Nope. lady Malys rule just says that, "After both sides have been deployed at the start of the game,..." you can re-deploy the units.

What Lady Malys can do that divination can't is place the units in reserve if desired

time wizard wrote:

whembly wrote:
I don't think that's right... if I remember correctly, Lady Malys' rule specifically states that she does this before the roll to sieze is made (someone check the DE codex as I'm going off by memory). So, it would seem to be legal for Lady malys power to redepoy after scout moves are made. If that is true, then this power seems much more effective...

Nope. lady Malys rule just says that, "After both sides have been deployed at the start of the game,..." you can re-deploy the units.

What Lady Malys can do that divination can't is place the units in reserve if desired

Huh... not sure what I was thinking... I thought I remember'ed some verbiage where it states "before the roll to sieze is made...".

Thanks...

time wizard wrote:

whembly wrote:
I don't think that's right... if I remember correctly, Lady Malys' rule specifically states that she does this before the roll to sieze is made (someone check the DE codex as I'm going off by memory). So, it would seem to be legal for Lady malys power to redepoy after scout moves are made. If that is true, then this power seems much more effective...

Nope. lady Malys rule just says that, "After both sides have been deployed at the start of the game,..." you can re-deploy the units.

What Lady Malys can do that divination can't is place the units in reserve if desired

Wait, is that what it actually says? If so, she would redeploy AFTER scout moves.

Check pages 92 and 93 of BGB to see that scout moves happen before the game starts.

Grakmar wrote:
Wait, is that what it actually says? If so, she would redeploy AFTER scout moves.

Check pages 92 and 93 of BGB to see that scout moves happen before the game starts.

But if you look at 'SCOUTS' on page 76, you see that after both sides has deployed their forces, including infiltrators, then before the first player begins his first turn, and scouts can make a scout move, which is a normal move made exactly as in the Movement phase.

You have to remember that the scouts have already been deployed along with the rest of the army, they can then make a move.

Malys' rule doesn't specifically say after both sides have been deployed and after all scout moves have been make, so without a FAQ to say for sure, it could still be open to interpretation.