1500 Moar Eldar

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**xlEternitylx**

HQ
Farseer
-Witnessing, Warding, SS, Fortune, Mind War, Jetbike......180

Elites
5x Fire Dragons
-Wave Serpent w/ SS, Scatter Lasers......205

5x Fire Dragons
-Wave Serpent w/ SS, Scatter Lasers......205

Troops
3x Guardian Jet Bike
-1x Warlock w/ Embolden.........116

3x Guardian Jet Bike
-1x Warlock w/ Embolden.........116

3x Guardian Jet Bike
-1x Warlock w/ Embolden.........116

5x Dire Avengers
-Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Lasers, SS........185

Heavy
Fire Prism................115

Fire Prism...............115

Wraithlord
-2x Flamers, Starcannon, EML.....145

Total: 1498

Thoughts?

**akaean**

it looks pretty solid, but a few things bother me a bit.

1) I don't see why you aren't spending the additional 13 points per guardian jetbike squad to give them a singing spear and a shuri cannon. The extra range from the cannon, and the s9 from the Spear really helps the squad contribute some ranged fire power. Its not a big point investment, and the extra weapons can often come in handy.

2) I'm hesitant about your farseer- if you wanted to go for mindwar- for the sniping and such, I would recommend really fitting out one of your jet bike squads for fire fights (6 guys with 2 cannons and a destructor warlock) That way you have the Farseer's leadership 10 to help avoid breaking and significantly more fire power from the squad as a whole. It also would give them more bodies to benefit from your fortune cast and a few more numbers to protect from small arms fire.

The problem I see is with the way your GJB are currently set up, they'll be spending the majority of their time in turbo boost and swooping in on objectives- this does not make a good platform for an 18 inch shooting psychic power. And don't forget that because of the turbo boost rules, you aren't aloud to do anything OTHER than turbo boost if you decide to turbo boost. This means if you do anything before you can't turbo boost, this means no psychic powers- so you can't actually fortune the 3+ cover save... The best you could do is fortune a squad next to the farseers squad and then boost them. But the Farseer cannot fortune hers or her squads 3+ cover.

I'd also recommend fitting a singing spear onto your Jetseer. The loss of an attack isn't a huge deal and you pick up an s9 bs5 shot for hitting vehicles with. Since she should probably be actively avoiding close combat when shes with guardian jetbikes its a pretty good trade.

3) the last thing that seems weird is the wraithlord. You have a fair number of psychers to support him but they are all moving super fast- in fact everything in your list can move super fast... except the wraithlord. To be honest I'd drop him to beef up your squads as suggested above. His load out also seems a little odd. You have an s8 gun paired with an s6 gun and an ap3 gun paired with an ap2 gun. This doesn't have great synergy. If you wanted anti terminator shooting you'd go with lance + starcannon to double up on ap2. If you were thinking anti vehicle you'd go lance + EML to double up on s8. You get the idea. I've heard that lance + missile is the best set up for a ranged lord if you are dead set on that, but I just don't think he synchs very well with the rest of your army.

**xlEternitylx**

akaean wrote:it looks pretty solid, but a few things bother me a bit.

1) I don't see why you aren't spending the additional 13 points per guardian jetbike squad to give them a singing spear and a shuri cannon. The extra range from the cannon, and the s9 from the Spear really helps the squad contribute some ranged fire power. Its not a big point investment, and the extra weapons can often come in handy.

Okay, if I drop one group of GJB that frees up 116 points. I can use 26 of those points to add 2x Shruiken Cannons and 2x Singing Spears to the other 2 groups. The remaining 90 points could go to 2x Jetlocks to accompany the Jetseer - I'll scounge for the other 45. Looks like I may have to give up the DA in the WS for a GJB squad...

akaean wrote:2) I'm hesitant about your farseer- if you wanted to go for mindwar- for the sniping and such, I would recommend really fitting out one of your jet bike squads for fire fights (6 guys with 2 cannons and a destructor warlock) That way you have the Farseer's leadership 10 to help avoid breaking and significantly more fire power from the squad as a whole. It also would give them more bodies to benefit from your fortune cast and a few more numbers to protect from small arms fire.

I would rather avoid a Seer Council - I've had some success with them, but overall I don't have enough experience using them to run them at the top of my game. Adding a few bodies though, is a good idea. See above.

akaean wrote:The problem I see is with the way your GJB are currently set up, they'll be spending the majority of their time in turbo boost and swooping in on objectives- this does not make a good platform for an 18 inch shooting psychic power. And don't forget that because of the turbo boost rules, you aren't aloud to do anything OTHER than turbo boost if you decide to turbo boost. This means if you do anything before you can't turbo boost, this means no psychic powers- so you can't actually fortune the 3+ cover save... The best you could do is fortune a squad next to the farseers squad and then boost them. But the Farseer cannot fortune hers or her squads 3+ cover.

You have some things right here. The GJB will be mostly Turboing around for the 3+. But they don't have an 18" psychic power to shoot? With the addition of a shuriken cannon and a singing spear, as per your earlier suggestion, they become a bit more useful, but still, they are to capture and control, not be the forerunners. The seer isn't going to be boosting at all really. With SS, Mind War and Fortune, her job is to stay fortuned and pick off annoyances like termies or other deathstar units.

akaean wrote:I'd also recommend fitting a singing spear onto your Jetseer. The loss of an attack isn't a huge deal and you pick up an s9 bs5 shot for hitting vehicles with. Since she should probably be actively avoiding close combat when shes with guardian jetbikes its a pretty good trade.

Since Mind War is a psychic shooting, I couldn't use a Singing spear anyways...right?

akaean wrote:3) the last thing that seems weird is the wraithlord. You have a fair number of psychers to support him but they are all moving super fast- in fact everything in your list can move super fast... except the wraithlord. To be honest I'd drop him to beef up your squads as suggested above. His load out also seems a little odd. You have an s8 gun paired with an s6 gun and an ap3 gun paired with an ap2 gun. This doesn't have great synergy. If you wanted anti terminator shooting you'd go with lance + starcannon to double up on ap2. If you were thinking anti vehicle you'd go lance + EML to double up on s8. You get the idea. I've heard that lance + missile is the best set up for a ranged lord if you are dead set on that, but I just don't think he synchs very well with the rest of your army.

Honestly, the Wraithlord is my favorite model, so I really wanted to make room for him. That said, I'll definitely change the loadout for anti-termy. I have the FD for anti tank, and fast moving SS.

So, overall - Change WL loadout, drop one set of GJB, add 2x SS and Shuri Cann to the other 2 GJB, and add 3x Jetlock to the Seer. Looks like:

HQ
Farseer
-Witnessing, Warding, SS, Fortune, Mind War, Jetbike......180

3x Warlocks
-3x Jetbikes........135

Elites
5x Fire Dragons
-Wave Serpent w/ SS, Scatter Lasers......205

5x Fire Dragons
-Wave Serpent w/ SS, Scatter Lasers......205

Troops
3x Guardian Jet Bike
-1x Shuriken Cannon
-1x Warlock w/ Embolden, Singing Spear.........129

3x Guardian Jet Bike
-1x Shuriken Cannon
-1x Warlock w/ Embolden, Singing Spear.........129

3x Guardian Jet Bike
-1x Shuriken Cannon
-1x Warlock w/ Embolden.........126

Heavy
Fire Prism................115

Fire Prism...............115

Wraithlord
-2x Flamers, BL, Starcannon.......160

Total: 1499

Is this more akin to what you were saying?

**akaean**

Well... you really don't want a toughness 3 not eternal warrior command model running around by herself. All it takes is one failed pair of saves against a missile launcher, or scatter laser and suddenly you lose 180 points. Lets not forget that fortune could easily be blocked by a psychic hood. Solo Farseers are just a bad idea in general. Since you want mindwar she'd be best served flying with some GJB.

Fortune or not, you probably want your farseer in a squad, which was why I was talking more in terms of fitting a jetbike squad out for cruising with her.

As per Singing Spear and Mindwar- its mainly because the spear is so cheap. You can't mindwar a tank, but you can toss the spear into it- it gives the farseer some versatility, and at only 3 points I think its worth it.

**xlEternitylx**

Just play-tested the list at 1500 against a parking lot IG. Some comments:
1) The extra bodies on the Seer was a superb idea. 3x Warlocks went a long way to save the seer, you lasted the entire game. Definitely keeping the locks.
2) The singing spears on the GJB were a worthy investment as well. Kudos for that advice.
3) I didn't take the SS on the farseer. For this game, I was a bit upset, but the Witchblade made up for it. Mind war worked well, so I think I'll keep this configuration.
4) Wraithlord was the anti-MVP of the game. Sight twice, and then failed to kill anything. But, that said, I discovered that I really dislike the BL/Scatter Laser setup. I am going to try a BL/EML. Not sure where the 5 points is coming from though...

So, with this in mind, how do I get 5pts for the EML?
Also, can I find 3pts for the 3rd Singing Spear?
Really, I only need to find 7pts of room, but need help doing so!!
Also, is there room to fit a second seer in to sit with the Wraithlord?

Thanks!

**seapheonix**

You could change one of your scatter serpents to shuriken cannons and that would give you the little points you need. Perhaps someone else could find the spare farseer.

**xlEternitylx**

Okay, if I drop one Scatter Laser to a Shuriken Cannon, that gives me enough points to not only up the WL's Scatlas to an EML, and add the singing spear, but to also up the other WS's Scatlas to an EML.

What if I switched one of the Fire Prisms for a night spinner? Yay, neigh? Good idea?

**racta**

The option to link the fire prisms is better than 1 and 1 in my opinion.
Why put EML's on a wave serpent that is going to be moving up to deliver the fire dragons? I'd keep them scatters, or if you need more points then drop them to cannons. Maybe drop them to cannons and add in a power to the jetlock squad, embolden, destructor, or enhance if you plan on getting them stuck in.

**seapheonix**

Fire prisms seem like such a good weapon, but I've just had no luck with them. Mostly just bad dice rolls, but the points sink I find if better spent elsewhere. I have not tried Night spinners yet, although I imagine the difficult terrain could be very useful.

**xlEternitylx**

Had another game with this list, and tabled the guy on turn 4. BA, with a death company deathstar and storm raven assault group. Again, the Wraithlord's Star Cannon was unimpressive (I hadn't had time to drop the ScatLas on the WS to add the EML), but that can be fixed. The big thing was the Prisms; their Str6 AP3 Large Temps were utterly devastating. So I question Nightspinners - I'm not sure that they could have had the same results. So, for now, I'm sticking with prisms. I'll reupdate the list if I suffer several defeats though. Thanks for all your guys' help!!