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After reading the novel Redemption Corp, which imo was a decent read, I was thinking about a few rules I wanted to add/change.

Squad Support Weapon: A heavy weapon with this rule may be fired up to normally if the unit remained stationary in the movement phase. The weapon may also fire or fire up to 1/2 range with 1/2 the shots and at -1 BS. A unit that chooses to use this rule can only move d6" in the preceding movement phase. Always round up.
I wanted this rule to reflect how some weapons, like stubbers and heavy bolters can used on the move.

A little something I came up with to help guardsmen from dying in droves due to the fact that almost every other army's basic gun punches right through flak armour.
For 20pts, an squad may take a medi-pack. As long as the unit's ratio of medics to other models does not exceed 1:10, the unit has FNP(5/6+)

Voxes. Is there anyone out there that really uses these? If I were writing the rules, they would be lose the ability to reroll orders tests, but extend the command radius of a officer by 6." and maybe an increase to 10pts.

Guardsmen don't need help in death prevention... you get something like 10,000 of them for 5 points.

Med-kit: One wound may be ignored per game, as long as it does not cause Instant Death. 5 point unit upgrade.

somewhat_here wrote:Med-kit: One wound may be ignored per game, as long as it does not cause Instant Death. 5 point unit upgrade.

Change that to "Per Phase" and make it 30 points. I'd buy it.

Regular line infantry, or veterans, definitely should be able to get medics.

If I may, I agree with the idea that regular squads should get to carry medi-packs. But I do not think that they should have different rules like this.

I think regulars should be able to carry medi-packs just like command squads, but the rule should stay as the "feel no pain" special rule. Citing the previous point that was made about Guardsmen being cheap, there really isn't much point in ignoring a wound, especially when you may be recieving 5 or 6 on a single squad. Yeah it might save your heavy weapon squad or plasma gunner, but I would rather take the opportunity to re-roll ALL my saves rather than succeed at one.

Just my opinion.

I think Doc's reasoning behind his rule suggestion is to avoid the current trap the game designers seem to be in, which is "find an excuse to give every unit in every army FnP if at all possible."

I really like the mechanic of FnP but it detracts from the coolness when it seems like every single army has one or multiple units benefiting from it. Honestly it barely makes sense anyway for a medic to give FnP to a squad. So he's injecting everyone with stimms and morphine before the battle? Whatever happened to medics actually, you know, patching guys up one at a time?

Can my ork boyz get a medic? Our armor is worse than flak, aren't we entitled to that same benefit?

I know Nobs can get painboyz. I don't know if there's a way to extend this down to regular mobs though. Also Orks are probably the one army where I feel it makes sense for the medic characters to simply stimm up the troops and grant then FnP. I can't see an Ork medic risking life and limb to patch up a fallen comrade, but I can certainly see an Ork with syringes strapped all over himself, giving the ladz a shot of go-juice before they charge onto the field. Just my opinion though.

Edit: on looking at the codex, it seems you can't extend painboyz to other units. Maybe start a new thread and propose a way to do this?

CalgarsPimpHand wrote:I think Doc's reasoning behind his rule suggestion is to avoid the current trap the game designers seem to be in, which is "find an excuse to give every unit in every army FnP if at all possible."

I really like the mechanic of FnP but it detracts from the coolness when it seems like every single army has one or multiple units benefiting from it. Honestly it barely makes sense anyway for a medic to give FnP to a squad. So he's injecting everyone with stimms and morphine before the battle? Whatever happened to medics actually, you know, patching guys up one at a time?

Actually, I was under the impression that this was what "medics" did in 40k.
As for Orks, I think that they're toughness and better weapon and special rules help them out a bit.

So right now, the disagreement is not whether units should have medics, but how the medic rule should work.

Every 'medic-class' in every army grants the FNP. That is how medics work since 5th edition.

There is no need to change this. A simple med-kit to the effects we are talking about here is one of those additions that is akin to a field kit when a medic is not available.

somewhat_here wrote:Every 'medic-class' in every army grants the FNP. That is how medics work since 5th edition.

There is no need to change this. A simple med-kit to the effects we are talking about here is one of those additions that is akin to a field kit when a medic is not available.

You are correct, however, should "medics" confer FNP? From what I understand, Your Friend Doc. Robert, CalgarsPimpHand, myself are talking about is that it seems that every army this edition has access to FNP and that it does not really reflect a medics role on the battle field. Ork Painboyz are shooting up other orks with stimms so FNP is justified, but a medic is supposed to, "patching guys up one at a time." This would require change to the rules.

A Note to those that have been following this topic, I'm adding a few other unrelated changes and renaming the topic.

Not necessarily. The Imperial Guard is known to inject combat stimms into their troops (it's been noted in several sources) to make them more battle-hardened, ignore pain, keep fighting, etc. Basically, the IG COmbat Medic is doing the exact same thing as a painboy, albeit with some refinery to his work.

Still, If you really want to brain storm alternatives to the FNP mechanic I'm willing to brainstorm with you guys.

That's what I was getting at. Moving away from stimming to actually patching up wounded soldiers.

And what are you sources about the IoM using stimms. I'm curious as I haven't heard of this. Most of the time they just harness the power of strong rhetoric and fanaticism.

The now redundant game Inquisitor was one source. In the Imperial Guard veteran profile it states such men that catch the eyes of the Inquisition for service are those who survive long sorties; men who have been subjected to chem/stimm manipulation, the harshest conditions, etc etc.

So guys like the Elysian D-99 detachment? They're vets, tyranid experts, and chemically modified.

Right alongside Savlar Chem-Dogs and Gland Warriors.

Another piece of wargear I feel needs to be changed is the sniper rifle. For a weapon that sows so much fear on the modern battlefield, one would think that it would be more so in the 41millenium.

I think sniper rifles should confer rending on a 5+ and cause pinning tests on unsaved wounds with -1Ld penalty.

Assuming BS4, the probability of causing an unsaved wound against 4+ should be about

1/3 chance of scoring a non-rending hit. 1/2 chance of that hit wounding ->1/6 1/2 chance of that wound being unsaved ->1/12

1/3(rending)+1/12(non-rending)=5/12~42%

Someone correct me if my math is wrong.

The only thing in all of 40k that represents the capabilites of a real world sniper is the Vindicare Assasin. As well a sniper's fear is generated from their unidentifiable location, as much as it is their lethality. I guess what im saying is that people fear snipers because they can strike at any time from anywhere.

I do agree about the pinning penalty, (perhaps even -2 or -no. of wounds taken) but I think they rend fine as it is

I actually was tempted to put down -2 for the Ld, but then I remembered that pinning is functionally useless anyway with everything running around either ld8+, fearless, or stubborn. Also, - no. wounds wouldn't really be useful because sniper rifles hardly kill anything to begin with. That's why I felt increased the rending to 5+. I wanted to do 4+, but with units such as Ratling, Scouts, and Sniper SWS, that would be a little too powerful.

A few of these are used look at IA

Would you be able to tell me which IA book and what unit? There are 10 you know.

acekevin8412 wrote:Another piece of wargear I feel needs to be changed is the sniper rifle. For a weapon that sows so much fear on the modern battlefield, one would think that it would be more so in the 41millenium.

I think sniper rifles should confer rending on a 5+ and cause pinning tests on unsaved wounds with -1Ld penalty.

Assuming BS4, the probability of causing an unsaved wound against 4+ should be about

1/3 chance of scoring a non-rending hit. 1/2 chance of that hit wounding ->1/6 1/2 chance of that wound being unsaved ->1/12

1/3(rending)+1/12(non-rending)=5/12~42%

Someone correct me if my math is wrong.

good idea.
maybe hitting on a 2+ and wounding on 3+ though? currently snipers are only hitting 2/3rds of a time. coupled with a 4+ to wound my snipers are really usless.

so: hitting on 2+ wounding on 3+ rending AND possibly pinning. this is a GREAT idea. snipers would be feasibly more usful than just more lasguns(for first rank fire second rank fire)

note, probably not pinning. it really would be OP.

Really? This entire thread is kind of ridiculous. Do IG really need more analysis and help when Tau exist? But, just to contribute, the medics should not be extended to IG squads because, fluff wise, IG commanders don't give a flying f*** about the amount of troops lost. Thats why only the IG field commanders (a.k.a the ones that matter) are the ones who get the medics. The firing on the move idea is nice though it would have to be pretty limited, like only to H stubbers and H bolters. Sniper Wiffles are going to have their hey day in next edition, when they can prioritize wounds, so don't worry about improving them.

Config2 wrote:Really? This entire thread is kind of ridiculous. Do IG really need more analysis and help when Tau exist? But, just to contribute, the medics should not be extended to IG squads because, fluff wise, IG commanders don't give a flying f*** about the amount of troops lost. Thats why only the IG field commanders (a.k.a the ones that matter) are the ones who get the medics. The firing on the move idea is nice though it would have to be pretty limited, like only to H stubbers and H bolters. Sniper Wiffles are going to have their hey day in next edition, when they can prioritize wounds, so don't worry about improving them.

Not all IG commanders are like Chenkov and throw more men at a problem to solve it. I'm writing this from an Elysian perspective, as I play the IA8 list, and was trying to think of some ways to fill in the hole in the army list left from the total lack of tanks. And where did you hear about the change to sniper rifles in next edition? If what you say is true, then I'd be quite happy.

acekevin8412 wrote:Not all IG commanders are like Chenkov and throw more men at a problem to solve it.

Well said. I despise Chenkov, and usually refer to him as, 'that asshat.'

The IG need more characters like Bastonne who actually give a rats ass about their soldiers. And I would very pleased if the Tau could get updated. However, Necrons are up next and I don't think they'll do two Xenos back to back without an Imperial in between.