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Does every single model in unit make its close combat attacks ? I mean if you have 5 attacks do you have to use them all or just 1 ? Mover leta say only 2 models out of 5 make their attack?

Thank you

Can we get a setting for this dilemma. Seems like an extremely vague Question.

If a model is engaged in close combat, it must attack, it must use all of it's attacks, and it must use a special CCW if it has one.

I am sorry but where can i find this in rule book?

Thank you

Page 37 under "Number of Attacks".

don_mondo wrote:If a model is engaged in close combat, it must attack, it must use all of it's attacks, and it must use a special CCW if it has one.

The Italics are spot on, but there are no actual rules to support the underlined claim.

you must use any special attacks, but it says noting about having to use special weapons. P.35

From the FAQ/Errata, so as to have the most current wording:
Page 42 – ‘A normal and a special weapon’, first
paragraph. The second sentence should be changed to:
All of their attacks, including the bonus attack, use the
special weapon’s bonuses and penalties.

I'd call that an actual rule........................

I should have clarified.

If you have more than 2 CCW's then there are no actual rules to support the underlined claim.

In response to the OP, it all depends on where the models are located, and initiative.

Scenario 1:

Lets say you have ten guardsmen(O), vs five space marines(X).

O O O O O
O O O O O
X X X X X

Let's also say that the guardsmen are all in base to base contact, and the five marines are in contact with the five guardsmen directly in front of them.

Since the marines have the higher initiative (4), they go first.

So, your opponent is luck and rolls four wounds, of which you fail three. It's recommended (in most cases) that you remove the casualties from the rear of your unit, so that you get as many return attacks as possible.

O O
O O O O O
X X X X X

Since your guardsmen only have initiative three, they strike next. You would only get eight base attacks(six from guardsmen and two from the sergeant), from the five models in base to base contact, and the two models within 2" of a model in base to base contact.

Scenario 2:

You have five celestians(O), vs five space marines(X), one with a power fist.(F)

O O O O O
X X F X X

Since both the celestians and the space marines are initiative four, they strike at the same time. Often, it's much easier to just roll the attacks for one player at a time, and keep track of how many wounds have been failed.

You decide to let your opponent roll his attacks first. He gets four attacks for his marines. He inflicts two wounds, of which you fail one.

Since you both have initiative four, you take note of which model is slain(usually by placing it on it's side), and roll your full number of attacks (5). You cause three wounds, and your opponent fails two. You still get to make your full attacks, even for the slain model, because both sides have the same initiative, and thus strike at the same time.

Now you remove your casualties.

O O O O
X X F

After casualties are removed, the marine sergeant with the power fist rolls his attacks at initiative one.

If the sergeant had been removed as a casualty after the initiative four attacks had been resolved, he would not get to fight.

Scenario 3

You have thirty conscripts(O), vs ten space marines(X).

Your first two rows are in base to base contact with each other, and your first row is in base to base contact with the opposing player's marines. Your third row is 1.5" away from your second.

OOOOOOO
OOOOOOO

OOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOO
XXXX XXX XXX

Since your conscripts are initiative three, and the space marines initiative is four, they go first.

Your opponent inflicts seven wounds(he's a lucky guy) and you(an unlucky guy) fail seven.

Pretend for a moment that you're a noob, and make the noobish mistake of allocating wounds to models in the middle of your blob.

OOOOOOO
OOO O

O OO
OOOOOOOO
XXXX XXX XXX

Now, when you're performing your return attacks, you only get eleven attacks instead of sixteen attacks. Also, if your third row of conscripts had been in base to base contact with your second row, you would have gotten their attacks as well.

I'm sure there's stuff I'm forgetting, but I'll remember eventually...

Hope this helps.

You may not hold any attacks back.

I never said that you could. I wasn't accounting for any special equipment or rules that would grant extra attacks, nor was I including the extra attack for assaulting. I was putting the basic squads against each other, with no upgrades unless listed, like in scenario two, where the SM sergeant has a powerfist. There were no attacks being held back in scenario three either: the extra conscripts were simply not within 2" of a model in base to base contact with the enemy. I also didn't think it was necessary to bring that point up since the entire conversation in the beginning of this thread was about that rule in particular.

DeathReaper wrote:I should have clarified.

If you have more than 2 CCW's then there are no actual rules to support the underlined claim.

If you have more than 2 ccw there are no rules on how to handle it at all..................................

don_mondo wrote:If you have more than 2 ccw there are no rules on how to handle it at all..................................

Yes there are, since two is a subset of three.

If you have three CCW's you have three sets of two CCW's.

So Whichever you are using, you use those rules, since "Models with more than two weapons gain no additional benefit" P.37

If you want to count 2 as a subset of 3 (which it is and I have argued thusly in the past), then any rules cover ing special weapons would still be in effect as well.

They are, if you are using said special weapons.

if you are using a normal and a special weapon you use those rules instead.