Trim the Fat!! Eldar 1500

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**xlEternitylx**

Hey all, need some help cutting points to get to 1500. List as follows!

HQ
Farseer
-Witnessing, Warding, Fortune, Mind War, SS, Jetbike......180

4x Warlocks
-4x Jetbikes, Embolden, Enhance, 2x Destructor, 2x SS....226

Autarch
-Jetbike, Mandiblaster, Power Weapon, Reaper Launcher...145

Elites
5x Fire Dragons
-Wave Serpent, Scatter Lasers, SS........205

5x Fire Dragons
-Wave Serpent, Scatter Lasers, SS........205

Troops
3x GJB
-1x Warlock, Embolden, SS........129

3x GJB
-1x Warlock, Embolden, SS........129

3x GJB
-1x Warlock, Embolden, SS........129

Heavy
Nightspinner
-Holofields............150

Wraithlord
-2x Flamers, Wraithsword, BL.......140

Wraithlord
-2x Flamers, EML, BL.....160

Total: 1798

As you can see, I need to cut 298 points to get it down. I left everything in there as I initially wrote the list, so you can get an idea of what I would like in there. Please help!!!

Thanks!

**xlEternitylx**

Really? No one has any suggestions?

I've done a bit of work and cut out 240 points, but I need help trimming the last 58!

So, new list:

HQ
Farseer
-Witnessing, Warding, Fortune, Mind War, SS, Jetbike......180

4x Warlocks
-4x Jetbikes, Embolden, Enhance, 2x Destructor, 2x SS....226

Autarch
-Jetbike, Mandiblaster, Power Weapon, Reaper Launcher...145

Elites
5x Fire Dragons
-Wave Serpent, Scatter Lasers, SS........205

Troops
3x GJB
-1x Warlock, Embolden, SS........129

3x GJB
-1x Warlock, Embolden, SS........129

3x GJB
-1x Warlock, Embolden, SS........129

Heavy
Nightspinner.......115

Wraithlord
-2x Flamers, Wraithsword, BL.......140

Wraithlord
-2x Flamers, EML, BL.....160

New Total: 1558

Please Help guys.

**tedurur**

The WLs seems totally out of place. Not a fan of the small EJB squads with the expensive Jetlock. I would go for DAVU Serpent/Falcons instead

**rodgers37**

Go back to your origional list, and cut the Wraithlords, really not needed in a mech/bike list.

Also, Warlocks in 3 man Guardian jetbikes? Waste of points.

**xlEternitylx**

I can easily swap on the WL for a fire prism, but which should I swap - the WS one, or the BL EML one? I really like the WS, but synergy is more important (so long as I can have one WL

).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

rodgers37 wrote:Go back to your origional list, and cut the Wraithlords, really not needed in a mech/bike list.

Also, Warlocks in 3 man Guardian jetbikes? Waste of points.

The locks give the GJB staying power with embolden, I find that helps. But which original list did you mean? This one?

Farseer
-Witness, Ward, SS, Fort, Mind War, JB...180

3x Locks
-3x Bikes....135

5x FD
-WS, SS, Scatlas....205

5x FD
-WS, SS, Scatlas....205

3x GJB
-Shuri Cann, Warlock w/ SS, Embold.....129

3x GJB
-Shuri Cann, Warlock w/ SS, Embold.....129

3x GJB
-Shuri Cann, Warlock w/ Embold.....126

Fire Prism....115

Fire Prism...115

WL
-2x Flamers, BL, SC...160

This one?

**tedurur**

While they can reroll failed ld rolls they are still only 4 MEQs Its not difficullt to remove.

**akaean**

The Warlocks are important, being able to re roll leadership on a small scoring unit, which will be testing if it takes a single casualty, and (in a three man squad) unable to regroup if it losses 2 members... The re-roll helps the jetbikes do what their job is. Capturing an objective, and not breaking and running off the board.

Drop witnessing on your Farseer, and grab embolden on one of your warlocks. Saves you 5 points, and embolden lets you re roll psychic tests anyway.

I still don't like the Wraith Lord(s). Not fast enough, and you don't have any psychers who move at their speed. You could babysit them with a GJB warlock, but then they aren't making full use of their speed.

You can also shave about 30 points by downgrading the dragon wagons to shuri cannons. Due to the nature of fusion guns that tank will be right up in your opponents grill, so there isn't really any point to paying for extra range, and a 15 point premium for an extra shot alone is not worth it. Keep the dragon wagon's cheap, since they are a high risk unit anyway.

How is mindwar working out for you? 180pt Farseer and 135 point escort seems like a ton of points invested for an ability that often has trouble sniping. Ork Nobs have ld 10 from the mob rule, and against other races you often still have to punch through a psychic hood. Sure you have the potential to 1 shot enemy characthers... but you also have to take into consideration that you are often rolling against ld10, and more than half of the time you'll fail to beat their roll. Not only that, but according to the FAQ: Mindwar still allows cover and invulnerable saves- and most HQ charachters have a 3+ or 4+ from one of those...

Mindwar does seem like a cool secondary power (perhaps paired with doom or guide) but when you run fortune with mindwar it just seems like a huge amount of points dedicated for a build focused on the small chance of insta gibbing an HQ or MC.

**xlEternitylx**

The idea of the council is to use the Witchblades to mess up vehicles. And, so far, Mind war has a 1 for 2 kill ratio. The first was a fail against a regular BA Melta Marine, and I rolled a 1. The second was against Dante, who rolled a 1 when I rolled a 6. So, I'll keep trying it for now, but I see what you are getting at.

Will definitely drop the Witnessing for Embolden - has 2 fold effects.

Dropping the Scatlas to shuri - check.

I'm really not into mechdar, I prefer jetdar. Hence the Jet council, and 3x 3x GJB. The Fire prisms / Nightspinner are a necessity, as Vypers and Bikes can't pack that much punch. Regardless, I'll edit the list and see what comes of it.

While I do that - WL: Wraithsword, is it worth it? Is it better to be BL EML?

**zephel**

bl eml wraithlord is 155 pts

**Iranna**

I'm sorry but a Wraithlord has absolutely no place in this list. Everything moves faster than it and it brings little to the army. If you drop it you could have 3x Fire Prisms which makes any opponent wary.

The general rule of thumb is Wraithlords is you need to have at least 2; otherwise it's just asking to be shot to death with lascannons and missiles.

Iranna.

**Sarigar**

Looking at your bike councils role, you can drop the Autarch missile launcher to trim a bit of fat.

**xlEternitylx**

Iranna wrote:I'm sorry but a Wraithlord has absolutely no place in this list. Everything moves faster than it and it brings little to the army. If you drop it you could have 3x Fire Prisms which makes any opponent wary.

The general rule of thumb is Wraithlords is you need to have at least 2; otherwise it's just asking to be shot to death with lascannons and missiles.

Iranna.

My Wraithlords...Okay, so rule of thumb is two. Would it be better (and I think I know the answer) to go 3x Prisms, 2x Prisms and a nightspinner, 1x Prism and 2x WL, or 1x Nightspinner and 2x WL? I figure that 3x Prism or 2x Prism/Nightspinner has gotta be the best, but I'd like to see if 2x WL could fly in this list. Nevertheless...

Sarigar wrote:Looking at your bike councils role, you can drop the Autarch missile launcher to trim a bit of fat.

Good call.

**BlueDagger**

The wraithlords won't mesh we'll as others have said, I'd recoomend 2 prism, 1 spinner all with holos.

Please don't listen to the advise about the 4 man bikebike squads being bad.

**RunningWithScissors**

4 man bike squads seem a bit squishy especially if you dumping 130 points on each of them, I suggest maybe two 6 man squads at least but if you remember you wont always get embolden off, so at Ld 8 mathhammer says you will fail 1 (maybe two every so often) per turn. at 4 men per squad you take an Ld check everytime you loose one man. also if your opponent gets a shot off on your bikes before you can cast embolden, your in trouble. but you may have played with smaller squads more than I have and maybe it works for you

**xlEternitylx**

BlueDagger wrote:The wraithlords won't mesh we'll as others have said, I'd recoomend 2 prism, 1 spinner all with holos.

Please don't listen to the advise about the 4 man bikebike squads being bad.

Haha, I have experience that the Warlocks are absolutely necessary, so no worries there.
Also, it looks like I'll have to forego the Holos on the Spinner - with barrage, it can hide anyways.
I am sort of saddened that the Wraithlords won't work, I like the model. I'll definitely be play testing the list several times. This is what I'll be fielding:

HQ
Farseer
-Warding, SS, Fortune, Mind War, Bike, Singing Spear....173

4x Warlock
-4x Jetbike, Embolden, Enhance, 4x SS...212

Autarch
-Jetbike, Mandiblaster, Power Weapon....120

Elites
5x Fire Dragons
-Wave Serpent, SS, Shuriken Cannon...190

Troops
3x GJB
-1x Warlock, Embolden, Singing Spear....129

3x GJB
-1x Warlock, Embolden, Singing Spear....129

3x GJB
-1x Warlock, Embolden, Singing Spear....129

Heavy
Fire Prism
-Holofields........150

Fire Prism
-Holofields........150

Nightspinner.....115

Total: 1497. Any glaring mistakes that I should fix before fielding?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

RunningWithScissors wrote:4 man bike squads seem a bit squishy especially if you dumping 130 points on each of them, I suggest maybe two 6 man squads at least but if you remember you wont always get embolden off, so at Ld 8 mathhammer says you will fail 1 (maybe two every so often) per turn. at 4 men per squad you take an Ld check everytime you loose one man. also if your opponent gets a shot off on your bikes before you can cast embolden, your in trouble. but you may have played with smaller squads more than I have and maybe it works for you

Embolden is permanent, so I automatically get the re-roll. I do know they are squishy, but hopefully they won't draw too much attention.

**RunningWithScissors**

Also BTW i know you have done a few changes to you list so far but may I ask what is you plan with the autarch, the power weapon on the charge kills 1 maybe two MEQs. Also You cant take both the Banshee Mask and Mandiblasters you want to drop the Banshee Mask and take mandiblasters, autarchs already have a good initiative. Lone HQ models dont do well so i would either dedicate some points to some shining spears or just get rid of the autarch

**xlEternitylx**

Right, forgot about the no-no for both BM and Mandi

I idea is to run him with the council on a bike - I've heard good things about an autarch aiding the council. Should I drop him altogether, or is running him with the council work?

**RunningWithScissors**

I have never run a seer council with an autarch before, I just think that a putting a strength 3 power weapon in with witchblades doesn't work well witchblades need to taget high toughness and vehicles while the autarch cant touch either, but its up to you

**xlEternitylx**

Interesting...if I drop the Autarch, and the holofields on the Prisms, I can add in another 5x FD with a WS w/ Shuri Cannons and SS...is this a good route to go? More melta, and leave the Autarch at home?

**RunningWithScissors**

Not taking Holo Fields is risky, Make sure they are getting cover saves. If you do that then your opponent will have to choose between taking out the serpents with FDs or the Fire Prisms. I dont use dragons so i dont know how that would work

**xlEternitylx**

With 60" range I think I should be able to keep the prisms in cover. That's what I'll do then. I still have 3 points to kill though, any ideas?
The other alternative is to add more Warlocks to the council...

(Updated List)
HQ
Farseer
-Warding, SS, Fortune, Mind War, Bike, Singing Spear....173

4x Warlock
-4x Jetbike, Embolden, Enhance, 4x SS...212

Elites
5x Fire Dragons
-Wave Serpent, SS, Shuriken Cannon...190

5x Fire Dragons
-Wave Serpent, SS, Shuriken Cannon...190

Troops
3x GJB
-1x Warlock, Embolden, Singing Spear....129

3x GJB
-1x Warlock, Embolden, Singing Spear....129

3x GJB
-1x Warlock, Embolden, Singing Spear....129

Heavy
Fire Prism........115

Fire Prism.....115

Nightspinner.....115

Total: 1497.

**Icon720**

Now that the Autarch is gone the Fire Prisms and Night Spinners may not get a shot if you go second. I would say drop the council because it is too small. It can be a tarpit at that small but it will loose to better CC squads. The small council is good for vehicles but that is what your fire dragons are for. I would go with a Farseer with doom, RoWa and an Autarch with a 5 man DA sqaud in a WS for the same cost (can even give Autarch Fusion gun/Power Weapon). This will allow you to reserve the entire army and get that +1 to ensure you hit first rather than spending the points on holo fields hoping you only get stunned and can get cover. While I agree that wraithlords dont make much sense I would disagree with walkers not making sense. The entire army is mobile but very low volume of fire. S6 shooting is the eldar thing, for the cost of those three tanks you can get 9 WW with ShurCan. Thats 54 shots instead of three! For my ard boyz list (and I am in semifinals) I put out 121 s6 shots a turn. So what it's not as mobile, nobody is going to shoot troops if the walkers are bringing the sky down. Just my 2 cents.

**atlas_garon**

maybe instead of embolden conceal cause a dev squad of heavy weapons will obliterate an entire squad

**xlEternitylx**

The GJB will mostly stick in reserves, and then when they do come in, they will be turbo boosting all over the place for the 3+ save, so I'm not too worried about that. Plus, with so much other scary stuff, I hope they'll be a low target priority.

With a council that is good for vehicles, I'd be fine with a smaller group. That said, should I drop a set of FD so that I can add in an Autarch? What do you guys think is best??