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Okay so playing a guy using GK. He has his dread in a ruin that has been bolstered by a techmarine. Does the dread get a 3+ save or does it stay 4+?

Points of Interest

A) The bolster defense says a unit counts the ruins as 1 better then normal...

B) A vehicle doesn't say it gets a save for being in the cover, rather by being 50 hidden...so the it only gets a 4+ save

I argued B, but my opponent argued A...which was right?

I would say B, as the Bolster Defences is specifically affecting the cover save granted by the ruin, not by any other circumstances which happen to occur within the ruin.

hmm, I would assume you are right, far from being a rules guru myself... but a vehicle, has to have 50% of its facing (that your firing at) obscured, similar things have happened with children in my local GW, them placing a hammerhead ontop of a ruin and claiming a cover save, needless to say all of the older people and the manager pretty much in unison corrected him and his opponent was kind enuff to let him replace it (he was young, new and it was only the first turn)

Vehicle cover rules state that the vehicle gets whatever cover save the terrain obscuring it provides. It'd be a 3+.

You get the bolstered save, you need to be 50% obscured, but the ruin is doing the obscuring.

As long as the Dread is at least 50% obscured, he will get what ever cover save he's being obscured by. In the case of the bolstered ruins, he would get a 3+.

For mixed squads, does a Thunderfire Cannon get a cover save from the bolstered ruins the TM is in?

axeman1n wrote:As long as the Dread is at least 50% obscured, he will get what ever cover save he's being obscured by. In the case of the bolstered ruins, he would get a 3+.

For mixed squads, does a Thunderfire Cannon get a cover save from the bolstered ruins the TM is in?

Common confusion ...

For any one in the unit to have a cover save +50% of the models in the unit must have a cover save. Vehicles and MC must be +50% obscured to gain a cover save. So a unit of vehicles or MC require that +50% of the models are each +50% obscured.

In a mixed unit a if +50% of the unit has a cover save then whole unit has a cover save even if they would not normally be eligible. Techmarine with a Thunder fire cannon in a ruin (area terrain) will always get a cover save because +50% of the unit is in cover.

You get the Bolstered cover, which is awsome.


The balancing factor is that Ruins arn't always present in your Deployment zone so its a hit and miss advantage.

my opinion its B vehicals become obscured targets which is stated as 4+ which is a bit of an over sight in this case but it is a boon for orks with a KFF.

Welsh_Furey wrote:my opinion its B vehicals become obscured targets which is stated as 4+ which is a bit of an over sight in this case but it is a boon for orks with a KFF.

No, Obscured gives whatever cover save the obscuring feature gives.

If a vehicle is obscured by something that doesn't have a specific cover save(such as another vehicle) then it reverts to a generic 4+

Grey Templar wrote:

Welsh_Furey wrote:my opinion its B vehicals become obscured targets which is stated as 4+ which is a bit of an over sight in this case but it is a boon for orks with a KFF.

No, Obscured gives whatever cover save the obscuring feature gives.

If a vehicle is obscured by something that doesn't have a specific cover save(such as another vehicle) then it reverts to a generic 4+

Can you please tell me where in the book this is located? ( I need it for future use.)

Page 62 under "Vehicles and cover - obscured targets"

Left column, 5th paragraph of that section.

Dark_Angels_Sav wrote:B) A vehicle doesn't say it gets a save for being in the cover, rather by being 50 hidden...so the it only gets a 4+ save

You would appear to have misunderstood the vehicle cover rules.

As others have pointed out, the rules for vehicles and cover specifically allow vehicles to take the same cover save as infantry would get. The only difference for vehicles comes from how much of the model needs to be obscured in order to benefit from the cover.

If the vehicle is sufficiently obscured, it's still 'in cover' just like any other model.

Yeah, so my Tank that is behind a hedge gets a 5+ cover because thats what the Hedge gives.

If it was behind a Stone Wall it would get a 4+ and so on.

Grey Templar wrote:Yeah, so my Tank that is behind a hedge gets a 5+ cover because thats what the Hedge gives.

If it was behind a Stone Wall it would get a 4+ and so on.

As long as 50% of the model is covered (which I know you know, I'm just emphasizing).

Out of curiosity, is it possible for a vehicle to be obscured by infantry?

Yes, why wouldn't it be? Models block LOS.

Indeed. You just need infantry models that are big enough, or numerous enough, to obscured 50+% of the vehicle.

So you can grant a cover save to, say, a Lemun Russ Tank just by having a screen of Guardsmen in front of it? They're roughly half the height of a tank.

If they physically block 50% of the tank from the point of view of the firing models then yes, they would grant it cover.

It's not just a matter of them being half the height of the tank... there's the space between the models to consider as well.

CthuluIsSpy: Just look at your tank from the point of view of the unit targeting it, if it is 50% blocked, you have cover. It doesn't matter what it is.

LRBTs are a little tougher for infantry to obscure then other vehicles though.

Chimeras would certaintly be easier to obscure.

Umm. MC are not able to get cover saves are they? think I can vaguely remember that an avatar gets no cover save as its an MC or special rule, but ignores difficult terrain. I might be wrong.
someone please look this up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey steelmage99 you dont answer my mails

akkados wrote:Umm. MC are not able to get cover saves are they? think I can vaguely remember that an avatar gets no cover save as its an MC or special rule, but ignores difficult terrain. I might be wrong.
someone please look this up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey steelmage99 you dont answer my mails

MCs are able to get cover saves, they just have to be +50% hidden from view, like vehicles. BGB pg 51

alright