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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 12:43:34
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun
Savannah, GA
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Okay so playing a guy using GK. He has his dread in a ruin that has been bolstered by a techmarine. Does the dread get a 3+ save or does it stay 4+?
Points of Interest
A) The bolster defense says a unit counts the ruins as 1 better then normal...
B) A vehicle doesn't say it gets a save for being in the cover, rather by being 50 hidden...so the it only gets a 4+ save
I argued B, but my opponent argued A...which was right?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 12:51:05
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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Lord of the Fleet
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I would say B, as the Bolster Defences is specifically affecting the cover save granted by the ruin, not by any other circumstances which happen to occur within the ruin.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 12:52:42
Subject: Re:Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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Apprehensive Inquisitorial Apprentice
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hmm, I would assume you are right, far from being a rules guru myself... but a vehicle, has to have 50% of its facing (that your firing at) obscured, similar things have happened with children in my local GW, them placing a hammerhead ontop of a ruin and claiming a cover save, needless to say all of the older people and the manager pretty much in unison corrected him and his opponent was kind enuff to let him replace it (he was young, new and it was only the first turn)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 13:00:55
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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Martial Arts Fiday
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Vehicle cover rules state that the vehicle gets whatever cover save the terrain obscuring it provides. It'd be a 3+.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 13:01:47
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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You get the bolstered save, you need to be 50% obscured, but the ruin is doing the obscuring.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 13:05:58
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
Lawndale
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As long as the Dread is at least 50% obscured, he will get what ever cover save he's being obscured by. In the case of the bolstered ruins, he would get a 3+.
For mixed squads, does a Thunderfire Cannon get a cover save from the bolstered ruins the TM is in?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 13:17:45
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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Proud Phantom Titan
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axeman1n wrote:As long as the Dread is at least 50% obscured, he will get what ever cover save he's being obscured by. In the case of the bolstered ruins, he would get a 3+. For mixed squads, does a Thunderfire Cannon get a cover save from the bolstered ruins the TM is in?
Common confusion ... For any one in the unit to have a cover save +50% of the models in the unit must have a cover save. Vehicles and MC must be +50% obscured to gain a cover save. So a unit of vehicles or MC require that +50% of the models are each +50% obscured. In a mixed unit a if +50% of the unit has a cover save then whole unit has a cover save even if they would not normally be eligible. Techmarine with a Thunder fire cannon in a ruin (area terrain) will always get a cover save because +50% of the unit is in cover.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/13 13:18:30
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 14:15:44
Subject: Re:Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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You get the Bolstered cover, which is awsome.
The balancing factor is that Ruins arn't always present in your Deployment zone so its a hit and miss advantage.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 15:33:34
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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Waaagh! Warbiker
wales
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my opinion its B vehicals become obscured targets which is stated as 4+ which is a bit of an over sight in this case but it is a boon for orks with a KFF.
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currently playing dropzone commander, battlegroup and gorkamorka |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 15:36:18
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Welsh_Furey wrote:my opinion its B vehicals become obscured targets which is stated as 4+ which is a bit of an over sight in this case but it is a boon for orks with a KFF.
No, Obscured gives whatever cover save the obscuring feature gives.
If a vehicle is obscured by something that doesn't have a specific cover save(such as another vehicle) then it reverts to a generic 4+
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 18:53:12
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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Yellin' Yoof
North Texas
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Grey Templar wrote:Welsh_Furey wrote:my opinion its B vehicals become obscured targets which is stated as 4+ which is a bit of an over sight in this case but it is a boon for orks with a KFF.
No, Obscured gives whatever cover save the obscuring feature gives.
If a vehicle is obscured by something that doesn't have a specific cover save(such as another vehicle) then it reverts to a generic 4+
Can you please tell me where in the book this is located? ( I need it for future use.)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 18:56:04
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Page 62 under "Vehicles and cover - obscured targets"
Left column, 5th paragraph of that section.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 20:19:11
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Dark_Angels_Sav wrote:B) A vehicle doesn't say it gets a save for being in the cover, rather by being 50 hidden...so the it only gets a 4+ save
You would appear to have misunderstood the vehicle cover rules.
As others have pointed out, the rules for vehicles and cover specifically allow vehicles to take the same cover save as infantry would get. The only difference for vehicles comes from how much of the model needs to be obscured in order to benefit from the cover.
If the vehicle is sufficiently obscured, it's still 'in cover' just like any other model.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 21:32:06
Subject: Re:Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Yeah, so my Tank that is behind a hedge gets a 5+ cover because thats what the Hedge gives.
If it was behind a Stone Wall it would get a 4+ and so on.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 21:33:30
Subject: Re:Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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The Hive Mind
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Grey Templar wrote:Yeah, so my Tank that is behind a hedge gets a 5+ cover because thats what the Hedge gives.
If it was behind a Stone Wall it would get a 4+ and so on.
As long as 50% of the model is covered (which I know you know, I'm just emphasizing).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 21:41:05
Subject: Re:Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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Out of curiosity, is it possible for a vehicle to be obscured by infantry?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 21:54:10
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Yes, why wouldn't it be? Models block LOS.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/13 21:54:31
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 22:03:52
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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Stormin' Stompa
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Indeed. You just need infantry models that are big enough, or numerous enough, to obscured 50+% of the vehicle.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 22:24:10
Subject: Re:Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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So you can grant a cover save to, say, a Lemun Russ Tank just by having a screen of Guardsmen in front of it? They're roughly half the height of a tank.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 22:25:29
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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If they physically block 50% of the tank from the point of view of the firing models then yes, they would grant it cover.
It's not just a matter of them being half the height of the tank... there's the space between the models to consider as well.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 22:27:34
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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CthuluIsSpy: Just look at your tank from the point of view of the unit targeting it, if it is 50% blocked, you have cover. It doesn't matter what it is.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/13 23:00:13
Subject: Re:Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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LRBTs are a little tougher for infantry to obscure then other vehicles though.
Chimeras would certaintly be easier to obscure.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/14 08:27:13
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Umm. MC are not able to get cover saves are they? think I can vaguely remember that an avatar gets no cover save as its an MC or special rule, but ignores difficult terrain. I might be wrong.
someone please look this up.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey steelmage99 you dont answer my mails
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/09/14 08:29:49
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/14 11:28:28
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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akkados wrote:Umm. MC are not able to get cover saves are they? think I can vaguely remember that an avatar gets no cover save as its an MC or special rule, but ignores difficult terrain. I might be wrong.
someone please look this up.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey steelmage99 you dont answer my mails
MCs are able to get cover saves, they just have to be +50% hidden from view, like vehicles. BGB pg 51
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/14 11:32:27
Subject: Vehicles in Bolster Cove?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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alright
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