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Am I correct in assuming forgeworld models such as the Tyranid hirrodule and so on cant be used in warhammer tournaments as they are not within the codex?

It depends on the tournament.

It really depends on the tournament, though more often than not I'd go with "No, anything not listed in the codex cannot be played".

Generally speaking, most tournaments will let you use FW models to represent codex models, but not use rules from the Imperial Armor books. However like the others said, it's best to check with your TO first.

Damn that sucks, cuz some of the forgeworld models are exceptional! Gamesworkshop should adopt them into their army books

Sasha1987 wrote:Damn that sucks, cuz some of the forgeworld models are exceptional! Gamesworkshop should adopt them into their army books

They did. They adopted them into Apocalypse. They'res till not tournament legal as they're Gargantuan Creatures, but they're Apocalypse legal. Forgeworld rules are designed for regular games as well, but still - not tournament legal since they still fall under Gargantuan Creatures.

Well, FW has always been the niche in the niche hobby that is Warhammer. Not many people can afford it, and then there's other problems with the rules as well. Besides, GW does adopt things from FW's IA books into regular codicies, Trygons and Valkyries for example.

Does this include the Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought? or does that get counted as a venerable dreadnought in official games?

For general regular models for normal games, Forgeworld isn't much more expensive than GW anymore - especially in the case of the OP who lives in Australia.

For us, things like dreadnoughts are actually cheaper from Forgeworld with arms and it only costs about $20au more to buy enough parts to make a pre heresy hactical squad than buy a regular tactical squad from GW, and have special.heavy weapon bits left over.

In regards to OP mentioning Tyranids, a Heirodule is cheaper than a Baneblade, and a Heirophant and Harridan roughly twice the cost. Both Hive Tyrant variants from Forgeworld are cheaper than the GW Hive Tyrant with the Finecast price increase.

Not sure what the Apocylipse is?? Yea definetly FW makes some amazing models, maybe they will change the tournament rules and allow you to use the giant creatures, would def make the games more varied and fun.

Sasha1987 wrote:Not sure what the Apocylipse is?? Yea definetly FW makes some amazing models, maybe they will change the tournament rules and allow you to use the giant creatures, would def make the games more varied and fun.

They won't, because super heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures are ridiculously powerful. They're not balanced for 'normal' games, even the Forgeworld rules, while generally weaker than the Apocalypse rules, are overpowering in standard games. They're intended as collector peices and for use in friendly games.

Apocalypse is a mission variant that is intended for games above 3000 points and more than one player per side, which gets rid of the force organisation chart and adds datasheets. Datasheets are rules for non-standard things, like superheavy vehicles, gargantuan creatures, fliers and formations of units.

Aaah okay fair enough, makes sense.....I guess you can still use those creatures in normal games aslong as theyre on the right sized base, although might have issues with line sight rules cuz they are large.......

Well, 'normal games' is a bit vague. They need a separate detachment, which means the game is going to be very big anyway, so you might as well just be playing Apocalypse. That's their intended gametype now.


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Viersche wrote:Does this include the Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought? or does that get counted as a venerable dreadnought in official games?

Contemptors have experimental rules available on Forgeworlds site. These are very much opponents permission until they go into an Imperial Armour book.

In any tournament I have been in FW models are completely acceptable as long as those models use standard 40k rules from the main rulebook or a codex.

The different marks of Space Marine armor or the chaos armor variants being particular examples.

A Heirodule makes an excellent (although rather expensive) Tyrannofex if mounted on an oval base. I don't think anyone would have a problem with it being played that way.

Sorry for being stupid, but the Imperial Armour books from Forge world they have the rules for the Apocolypse?

Sasha1987 wrote:Sorry for being stupid, but the Imperial Armour books from Forge world they have the rules for the Apocolypse?

Most of the rules in Imperial Armour are intended for normal play - this is why they say they take up certain slots in the force organisation chart. Superheavies, Gargantuan creatures and Fliers are meant for large games, and since large games. You don't have to play the Apocalypse mission in large games, but most do since it gives access to datasheets and lacks a force organisation chart.

Yea I will buy the book check it out, only thing is I dont think many people be using those rules and have armies big enough to play them. Most people stick to army books...thanks for all the info

Sasha, you really need to differentiate between "models" and "rules" when it comes to Forgeworld.

Forgeworld makes both alternative models (to be used instead af regular GW models) and unique models (with their own rules made by Forgeworld).

When asking; "Can I use Forgeworld models?", the answer would often be; "Sure, as a stand-in".

When asking; "Can I use Forgeworld rules?", the answer would, more often than not, be; "No".

Steelmage99 wrote:Sasha, you really need to differentiate between "models" and "rules" when it comes to Forgeworld.

Forgeworld makes both alternative models (to be used instead af regular GW models) and unique models (with their own rules made by Forgeworld).

When asking; "Can I use Forgeworld models?", the answer would often be; "Sure, as a stand-in".

When asking; "Can I use Forgeworld rules?", the answer would, more often than not, be; "No".

Was going to say the same thing, good thing I read the whole thread first, otherwise, I would have looked pretty silly! And just for the record, forgeworld models are the best! Just to expensive here in the states.... :(

Steelmage99 wrote:When asking; "Can I use Forgeworld models?", the answer would often be; "Sure, as a stand-in".

When asking; "Can I use Forgeworld rules?", the answer would, more often than not, be; "No".

More and more often this tends to be changing... My personal theory is that people are coming up against FW rules more and more often and realizing that except for a few models the FW Army lists aren't any more overpowered then some of the stuff being put into GW codexs any more.

Most of the local tournements I've played in, in the last year or two have allowed FW with the notible exception of the big 3; Flyers, Dreadnought Drop Pods and the Land Raider Achilles.

you can play in the gladiator tournament with them.

Sasha1987 wrote:Aaah okay fair enough, makes sense.....I guess you can still use those creatures in normal games aslong as theyre on the right sized base, although might have issues with line sight rules cuz they are large.......

To put it bluntly:
Would you enjoy fighting an army of three Warhound Titans over and over again in "friendly games", or would you eventually get frustrated getting stumped into the ground without any chance?

A game is not a game, if the outcome is fixed from the start. That's why even in friendly games, you won't see one side having 50 points and the other having 3000 points: No fun.

Kroothawk wrote:

Sasha1987 wrote:Aaah okay fair enough, makes sense.....I guess you can still use those creatures in normal games aslong as theyre on the right sized base, although might have issues with line sight rules cuz they are large.......

To put it bluntly:
Would you enjoy fighting an army of three Warhound Titans over and over again in "friendly games", or would you eventually get frustrated getting stumped into the ground without any chance?

A game is not a game, if the outcome is fixed from the start. That's why even in friendly games, you won't see one side having 50 points and the other having 3000 points: No fun.

Yeah, a lot of the stigma comes from the old pre-apocalypse days when the only way to field a Baneblade was to go IA. So when people heard "Can I use Forgeworld?" it was usually associated with plopping down something silly like a Baneblade or some other superheavy which standard armies had a lot of trouble dealing with it.

Nowadays, forgeworld stuff tends to be simply more exotic wargear, with a few exceptions from the latest books of course.

You have never been able to field superheavies without a separate detachment, which requires a force consisting of 2000 points at least.

Kroothawk wrote:

Sasha1987 wrote:Aaah okay fair enough, makes sense.....I guess you can still use those creatures in normal games aslong as theyre on the right sized base, although might have issues with line sight rules cuz they are large.......

To put it bluntly:
Would you enjoy fighting an army of three Warhound Titans over and over again in "friendly games", or would you eventually get frustrated getting stumped into the ground without any chance?

A game is not a game, if the outcome is fixed from the start. That's why even in friendly games, you won't see one side having 50 points and the other having 3000 points: No fun.

Warhound titans aren't that hard to kill...

Depends on what you brought to the table..

Also FW is lousy at balancing points values. Some of them are just stupidly high or low for the unit in question.

Sasha1987 wrote:Damn that sucks, cuz some of the forgeworld models are exceptional! Gamesworkshop should adopt them into their army books

They usually do, eventually.


Trygons and Mawlocs were FW models before the current Nid Codex.

Many of the current LRBT varients were FW. same with the Hydra, Griffon, and Manticore.

Drop Pods were FW products too.



It is rumored that GW will make an announcement, sometime in the near future, that all Forge World rules(not experimentals) will be legal in normal games and tournies(of course the TO still has the right to refuse)

Kanluwen wrote:You have never been able to field superheavies without a separate detachment, which requires a force consisting of 2000 points at least.

This.

If you disliked Forgeworld because someone asked if they could bring a Forgeworld model to a 1500 point game and you agreed, then they plonked a Baneblade down and proceeded to wipe the floor with you, don't hate Forgeworld. Hate that person. Because he cheated.


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Grey Templar wrote:Trygons and Mawlocs were FW models before the current Nid Codex.

The Mawloc was never a Forgeworld model, but the Trygon was.

Any some of the big things got added into the apoc rules... along with plastic models making it affordable to get.. would have never been able to have baneblades and other heavy tanks or even valkayries if GW didn't make plastic varients.