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I am building an eldar army and will mainly be playing against my friends armies. They have Space Wolves, Chaos Space Marines, and Blood Angels. Another friend has Dark Eldar but I figured it'd be best to make my list focusing on all the Marines.

We all just started warhammer 40k together and are new to table top gaming. We will be playing 500 point games to start off with then gradually moving up (750, 1000, 1500, 2000). I was thinking about using Eldar Farseer, 10 Guardians with EML platform and warlock with conceal, 5 Pathfinders, and 5 Warp Spiders for my first 500 point battle. It will probably be against Space Wolves' Rune Priest and 20 Grey Hunters. will my 500 point list hold up to that many Grey Hunters? What changes should I make to the 500 point list? What powers or options should I be sure to use for each of my units?

Looking to the future, I was wondering what the best type of eldar army would be against these three types of marines. What should I use from the things I already own? What else do I need to get to add to what I have?

I have painted/assembled:
Eldar Farseer with 3 Warlock Bodyguards
Eldar Guardians (10 with weapon platform - interchangeable weapons)
Eldar Warlcok (1 - in guardian squad)
Eldar Rangers (5 - could be pathfinders)
Eldar Warp Spiders (5 - one is exarch)

I own but is not painted/assembled:
Eldar Avatar of Khaine
Eldar Dire Avengers (20 - 2 are exarchs)
Eldar Howling Banshees (6 - one is exarch)
Eldar Swooping Hawks (6 - one is exarch)
Eldar Jetbike (1 so far)
Eldar Wave Serpent (1 so far)

Thinking about purchasing:
Eldar Wave Serpents (2)
Eldar War Walkers (3)
Eldar Fire Prism (1)
Eldar Fire Dragons (5)
Eldar Jet Bikes (2)
Eldar Eldrad Ulthwe

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I dont really know Eldar that well, but i play Space Wolves, and the first thing needed to take out any Marine army, which is what your playing is either alotof shots, or key shots with a low AP. That way your sure to inflict as many wounds as possible. And unless you have some seriously good Close combat squads, id try to keep the Wolves at long range.

Okay, thanks for the info!

A few things of note:

1) EVERYONE hates Runes of Warding when they play Psykers...especially Space Wolves...nothing gets on my nerves more than having a greater chance of having an aneurysm every time I go to cast something...so a Farseer would be a good pick for an H.Q.

2) Eldar put out quite a bit of high strength shots at range. Keep the shots going downrange and you'll pop open cans and drop squads left and right.

3) You have a plethora of models that can make things interesting for your opponent. At the lower points, Eldar struggle due to the expense of some of their units, but you can make it work with a good mix. I would say up to 1500 points, go with a foot list as you'll get more shots downrange and have a lot of bodies for your opponent to deal with.

Thanks for the advice martyr.

I must commend you. You have a bad ass looking future purchase list. And in fact it is dead on for building a solid and competitive army.

A Farseer, 2 DA squads in Wave Serpents, and a Fire Dragon Squad in a Wave Serpent all backed up by a few prisms and war walkers is a tried and true build.

Lets talk short term though

So we've got a 500 point game coming up, and you want to show those mon-keigh a thing or two about good breeding.

The secret to building a tough 500 point list is to figure out a way to fulfill your HQ and troop requirements and still keep the highest concentration of high strength and heavy weapons that you can.

My general strategy for low point games can be described as shuri spam. Shuriken cannons are a bargain basement heavy weapon which makes them perfect for 500 point games. They are cheap as dirt, which makes cramming more of them into a list more doable, 3 shots per is a pretty good deal, and strength 6 is versatile enough to bring down any light armor you might see- in addition to wounding most infantry on a 2+. The low range of shuri cannons is somewhat mitigated in a very low point game, but as you expand your army you will want to begin upgrading them to scatter lasers, bright lances, and missile launchers.

Your current list of available models however, lacks a lot of the common ways of fitting more heavy weapons into a list. War Walkers (on your future purchase list) can rock out two shuri cannons for 40 points. This makes them able to add considerable fire power to your list for very few points.

So lets see what we can do with your models (both assembled and not).

(95) Farseer- Doom, Runes of Warding
Ah, the cheap doom seer. Makes use of Doom to buff your shooting, and a low number of points. I recommend using Runes of Warding to provide psychic defense against Rune Priests, Librarians, Sorcerers, and Daemon Princes.

Because your unit selection is a bit unorthadox, lets see how we can best maximize your fire power, surviability is worth second.

Lets take 3 Warlocks with the Destructor psychic power. You combine that with the farseers doom... and you should be able to cause real carnage to just about any infantry you face.

(105) 3 Warlocks- 3x Destructor

Be warned. I wouldn't take a squad like this in higher point games. While you have incredible anti infantry capabilities (and can certainly slaughter any walker or tank in close combat) 4 models with only a 4+ invulnerable save will not take retaliatory fire. Not a huge deal in a very low point game, but definitely worth considering as you start playing bigger games.

Now you've got an incredibly fragile, incredibly short ranged, and very high damage unit. To deliver them, lets put them in the Wave Serpent.

[110] Wave Serpent- tl shuri cannon, underslung cannon

You will want to totally magnetize the Wave Serpent. The Underslung cannon just isn't worth it in bigger games, and the top shuri cannon will probably be replaced with a scatter laser or something. However this is a great way to add more heavy weapons and a delivery system for your warlocks. Cast doom, cruise up to the enemy, and have a bbq.

That takes up 310 points.

[95] 10 Guardians- scatter laser
[95] 5 Rangers

That fills up your troops. The guardians add some more s6 shots, I had a few points left over so they got an upgrade from shuri cannon to scatter laser- a bit more extra range.

You'll quickly find that Rangers suck, but the 3+ cover saves may help you out a bit. They also might rend a few space wolves to death. But mainly they are there because I didn't really see a better unit to fill out your troops with .

One of the best guns (if not the best) for the Eldar is the scatter laser. 36" 4 S6 shots are good at putting wounds on just about anything with a T value and can lay the hurt on AV 10-11ish vehicles. Basically, take this where ever you can-especially guardian defenders! At low points games, I think war walkers are crazy good (2X scatter laser each) and Vypers with Scatter Laser turret/Shiruken Cannon underslung upgrade are amazing too. Basically you'll put so many wounds on your opponent's squads (ideally) that they will just fail a bunch of saves (since they will have to take a bunch of saves). Dark Reapers are also amazing at low points costs games and the exarch with tempest launcher will wreck face (H2 S4 AP3 with re-roll wounds and ignore cover saves with crack shot is nice, will kill longfangs dead and any other infantry squad).


For AV 12+ there really are not great options but a unit of fire dragons in a WS will work wonders, alternatively, if foot sloging, take a unit of Fire Dragons with exarch/firepike/crackshot and even tank hunter if you have the points and just fortune them to protect them from inoming fire (and keep them in cover so they get a re-rollable 4+). Basically you'll have an 18" melta/lascannon (+1 to damage roll from tank hunter if taken) that IGNORES cover saves... This is huge because it guarantees that 2+ to hit roll that gets through armor is going to do some damage.

Other than that, Dire Avengers on foot shooting bladestorm into a doomed target will put a lot of hurt out too. I reccomend getting Harlequins (no other CC option in the codex is really as good as they are) since they can be virtually immune to long range shooting through veil of tears and when they charge a doomed target, they do a ton of damage. I also reccomend using Eldrad as he offers more CC survivability and psychic support.


A sample army could have a farseer with doom/fortune/stones/both runes (or Eldrad), Avatar, a unit of fire dragons with upgrades (and possibly a WS), 2 DA unit with bladestorm, 1unit of guardians with scatter laser and embolden warlock upgrade, 5 rangers, 5 warp spiders. Its a shame you don't have more HS choices (or any) since heavy support is usually filled in most Eldar armies-so many great options.

For 500 points, just a fortune seer with runes, DA squad with blade storm (9 strong), guardian squad with scatter laser and maybe an avatar if you can-That should do well against 20 grey hunters IMO-a Fortuned Avatar will wade through the gery hunters lol-they'll need 5's to hit him and he hits on 3's wounds on 2's and should survive any shooting they might throw at him. Plus he makes your army fearless.

I normally have a lot of success against marines with a foot list due to the amount of firepower we can take with some fast, versatile units. As others have said, a high volume of strength 6 and 8 shots really put a hurt on most types of marines.

Going with what you have built, the guardians are an effective meat shield for their gun, which can move and shoot so you can get it where you need it in a hurry without losing any rounds of shooting. The rangers probably won't be killing a lot of stuff, but they can serve are highly annoying objective campers, especially as pathfinders with a 3+ cover save. I don't use warp spiders myself, but they've got great mobility with decent armor, and the exarch is kind of a beast. For a foot list, I like taking a relatively loaded farseer, with doom, guide, and fortune in addition to his 'stone and runes. Runes of warding are very annoying for enemy psykers.

For the rest of your stuff, a farseer following around an avatar and casting fortune on him each turn is really quite effective, both because of how powerful the avatar is in assault, but also because he is a huge magnet for heavy firepower. Your opponents can't really afford to ignore him unless they are completely mech and able to drive away from him reliably (remember, he also has the equivalent of a melta gun with the wailing doom). Dire avengers are great versatile troops, especially with bladestorm. I personally like using howling banshees, but keep in mind that they are very fragile so you have to be careful with them. Swooping hawks aren't the best against marines, and are relatively expensive, but can be used for surgical strikes and harassment in some games. Wave serpents are pretty great, just remember that you can't assault directly from them so a shooting or scoring unit is a better cargo.

I'd certainly look at getting some fire dragons for tank killing, war walkers for being cheap weapons platforms, and perhaps a few more wave serpents to ferry either fire dragons or dire avengers around. You might also consider a wraithlord, they are really tough and relatively cheap.

Deuseviscerator wrote:You might also consider a wraithlord, they are really tough and relatively cheap.

I second this, I usually run between 1-3 Wraithlords (I play a lot of Iyanden so Wraithguard and Wraithlords) and they are very good/versatile units. They really are the best platform for 2 S8 shots at 155 and they are great in CC-A favorite tactic of mine is mind-warring a powerfist/powerclaw and just sending the wraithlord into a squad that has no way of handling him. Great tarpit for demons too as they need 6s to wound!

As you build larger lists, I would make my eldar more mech oriented as foot slogging and moving accross the board to contest objectives is hard to do. I woul have a full squad of 10 banshees, if not taking banshees 3 squads of 5-6 fire dragons in serpeants. I think war walkers with scatter lasers are great, but against high strenght vehicles like Monoliths, land raiders or leman Russ tanks they are going to do squat. If you can always try to alpha strike. Have the other person go first set up first, focus on one area of the board, turbo boost and alpha strike. If you can have a fire dragon squad, backed up by a banshee squad, so that if pop a nice juicy transport, you can charge with your banshees to take out the troops inside. Even wolves, with a farseer with doom and an exarch with an executioner, you can take out a squad, watch out for termies though. Use your war walkers with scatte lasers guided or use star cannons. I know many will say don't use star cannons. They are expensive, have one less shot than a scatter laser, however they have a lower AP, so with the shots you get through, they are more likely to kill space marines due to the low AP. Many times I will take 2 squads of war walkers with scatter lasers and then a third with either scatter lasers, EMLs or star cannons depending on who I am playing. Even if you are playing a mech army, remember you can reserve and outflank with them, which is very nice. Just make sure they have support when they arrive or they are easy pickins with armor value of 10. I do like Fire prisms, but with # of shots I get with War Walkers and the fact that a squad of 3 is harder to take out or prevent from firing than a single tank, I usually go with the walkers. This is just my opinion, but have had better luck with them. Hope this helps.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
p.s. I do like Eldrad as well. I know some people think he is not worth the point cost, but he can cast 3 powers per turn and even one twice. In a low point game like 500, not worth it, but a bigger game yes. Have had luck having him with a squad of Banshees and Jain Zair (I know a Phoenix Lord) in a serpeant. Have another serpeant with a squad of fire dragons. Take these two Serpeants to lead the charge when you strike - fortune both serpeants and turbo bost, you now have 2 serpeants with re-rollable saves, you can have another serpeant with troops (DA or Guardians) behind these two to help prevent shots at it and capture opjectives or have jet bikes behind them. I think jet bikes are decent objective grabbers, but I would not count on them taking much of anything out in the game or surviving CC. I would rather if points allow, have a squad of DA 10 man with exarch with Bladestorm. Some people don't like the cost of bladestorm and don't think it is worth it. But Facing large horde armies and squads of Ork Boys or Genestealers, believe me you want to take out those squads in one turn, before they can get into CC where you will die. Those extra dice can mean the difference between survival and death.

My mate John (Metalicarule) on here runs a decent Eldar list

Eldrad

5 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked shuriken cannon & shuriken cannon
5 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked shuriken cannon & shuriken cannon
5 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked shuriken cannon & shuriken cannon

5 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked shuriken cannon & shuriken cannon
5 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked shuriken cannon & shuriken cannon
5 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked shuriken cannon & shuriken cannon

3 x War Walkers - 6 x eldar missile launchers
3 x War Walkers - 6 x eldar missile launchers
3 x War Walkers - 6 x eldar missile launchers

mercer wrote:My mate John (Metalicarule) on here runs a decent Eldar list

Eldrad

5 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked shuriken cannon & shuriken cannon
5 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked shuriken cannon & shuriken cannon
5 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked shuriken cannon & shuriken cannon

5 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked shuriken cannon & shuriken cannon
5 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked shuriken cannon & shuriken cannon
5 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked shuriken cannon & shuriken cannon

3 x War Walkers - 6 x eldar missile launchers
3 x War Walkers - 6 x eldar missile launchers
3 x War Walkers - 6 x eldar missile launchers

I feel he could do with a few Shuriken Cannons in that list m8, also a couple of missile Launchers wouldnt go wrong.

Yeah mate he is seriously lacking shuris and EMLs

On another note has has recently changed the EMLs to scatters and likes them better. Personally I would take the EMLs, but I don't play Eldar and that's also just me.

I llike the list posted but I would not take so many EMLs on the War Wallkers. In addition I would try to make a 10 man squad of dire avengers, this way they can actually do something and kill horde squads. Even if you have to take less of them. If you want a opjective grabbing troop use jetbike squad with warlock. Depending on what you are facing 1 war walker squad can be emls or star cannons (less of a choice). Eldrad great if you can get another HQ in there - another Farseer or Autarch/Yriel or if consider phoenix lord Fuegan or Jain Zair or Mugan - they are pricey but with toughness 4 and immune to instant death may be worth more than an autarch. Cheers

Thanks for all the input everyone! This is a lot of great information for me to use. Thanks again!

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:I llike the list posted but I would not take so many EMLs on the War Wallkers. In addition I would try to make a 10 man squad of dire avengers, this way they can actually do something and kill horde squads. Even if you have to take less of them. If you want a opjective grabbing troop use jetbike squad with warlock. Depending on what you are facing 1 war walker squad can be emls or star cannons (less of a choice). Eldrad great if you can get another HQ in there - another Farseer or Autarch/Yriel or if consider phoenix lord Fuegan or Jain Zair or Mugan - they are pricey but with toughness 4 and immune to instant death may be worth more than an autarch. Cheers

As I mentioned he's been using scatter lasers lately and loves them loads better over EMLs.

If the Dire Avengers fail to kill a horde in shooting they will have to assault, they might win at the skin of their teeth and then consolidate and probably be killed next turn. Best keeping them in the transport and getting them out if you need too.

When I played Eldar I used Jetbikes for objectives and they worked nicely.

Starcannons are a bad idea, too expensive.

Eldrad tends to do all the work really. A Autarch wouldn't be worth it as he doesn't reserve and the Phoneix Lord's are cack.

Would my list hold up to my opponents list?

My Eldar:
HQ:
Farseer with Doom , Spirit Stones, Runes of Warding [Suggestions on what to take on my Farseer would be great]

Troops:
10 Guardians with Scatter Laser Platform and Warlock with Conceal [Suggestions on what to take on my Warlock would be great]

5 Pathfinders

Elites:
5 Warp Spiders including Exarch with Death Spinners and Power Blades

VS.

His Space Wolves:
HQ:
Rune Priest with Jaws of the World Wolf and Murderous Hurricane

Troops:
x2 10 Grey Hunters: both 10 man squads made up of 1 Mark of Wulfen, 1 Standard Bearer, 1 Power Axe, 1 Plasma Rifle, 1 Plasma Rifle, and 5 Bolt Pistol and Chainsword

For the points you're playing and the size of the game, I think you'll do pretty good.

As you have your Eldar set up right now, you should do alright. Only additions may be Runes of Witnessing.

Ok, thanks martyr

EldarMpuls3 wrote:Would my list hold up to my opponents list?

My Eldar:
HQ:
Farseer with Doom , Spirit Stones, Runes of Warding [Suggestions on what to take on my Farseer would be great]

Troops:
10 Guardians with Scatter Laser Platform and Warlock with Conceal [Suggestions on what to take on my Warlock would be great]

5 Pathfinders

Elites:
5 Warp Spiders including Exarch with Death Spinners and Power Blades

Your list looks like it should do just fine for the game you have coming up with Wolves. Just a few minor points

Your Farseer seems a bit bloated for 500 points. Spirit stones don't do anything unless you have taken two powers- since only Eldrad can cast the same power twice. And taking a seer with two powers in a 500 point list is an excessive amount of points sunk into your HQ. So just drop the spirit stones and focus on keeping your Farseer under 100 points. Warding is an excellent choice. Giving librarians aneurisms is always hilarious <3. Witnessing is a bit more fringe. Since your Farseer is already leadership 10, you shouldn't be failing very often- especially with only one power per turn. Witnessing becomes more viable when you have spirit stones and as such are casting multiple powers per turn, or if you expect to be playing against a lot of Tyranid and other Eldar Codex, as Runes of Witnessing basically cancel's out Runes of Warding and Shadow of the Warp. The Eldar FAQ talks about how these all interact.

I would take Embolden on your Guardian Defender squad. Conceal is only useful if you are chilling out in the open- and your Guardians should be hugging cover anyway. So since you will be having a 4+ cover save for being behind cover anyway- and cover is easy to get this edition, the 5+ offered by conceal won't really be used. Embolden however gives you a few bonuses. If you fail a moral test embolden can mean the difference between your guardians running or staying to shoot again. Its even better with the Farseer chilling with the squad. Remember Psychic tests are leadership tests. So if you actually do fail a psychic test, you can re roll it because of embolden. Its a great power.

I still don't like Rangers and think that you would be better off with another scatter laser guardian defender squad, but you'll experience their ineptitude yourself.

Finally, I would prefer War Walkers to warp spiders in low point games, but the spiders should do admirably.

As for what you can do with the 25 points freed up from dropping spirit stones and going from conceal to embolden- one option is to upgrade your rangers to full blown pathfinders. 2+ cover and ap1 on a 5 to hit- who knows, with doom support they may actually kill 2 marines . the other option would be to purchase either more spiders or withdraw for the exarch. That way you can tie down fire support squads, and withdraw from the combat at the end of their turn. Shoot and charge again.

One more thing. Close combat is not where you want to be against Space Wolves, Chaos Marines, and Blood Angels. These are armies that all have special close combat rules- en mass. And units like warpsiders- despite having a 3+ armor save and ini5, will get shredded by their basic infantry. Spiders can still be useful to tie down heavy support infantry- like devestators or longfangs just to silence their guns. However its unlikley you'll see that sort of thing in a 500 point game. As such it might be better to just take more warp spiders. Give your opponent more s6 loving and play defensively with your assault warp jump. Worry about stuff like withdraw and powered blades in larger point games where tying down fire support squads becomes more important. Remember that you can move and shoot with your guardian defenders.