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Why dont these guys have freaken 2 wounds. Its just slowed to give some guy awesome armor and only 1 wound... Freaken orks get 2 wound terminators with 6 attacks each WTF!

Point out where Ork meganobz have 6 attacks.

...

I'll save you the time. They don't. They have 3 base. They're also slow and purposeful, and have no invulnerable save.

If you want two wound terminators, go play Grey Knights. Space Marine terminators have 1 wound for balance purposes.

TH/SS termies are already great units. No need for any change/buff.

You can give them 2 wounds...just mark them at 75 points each and we'll call it a day

if anything they need +1 WS/BS, i mean THESE are 1st company VETERANS for feths sake. yet their just like regular marines in fancy armour.

200pts SM terminator squad 5 man
WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv2+
Can only take land raider 250pts
powerfist st 10
Stormbolter 2 shoots NOT TL

Meganobz 200pst 5 man quad
WS4 BS2 S4 T4 W2 I3 A3 Ld7 Sv2+
Can take battle wagon or trukk 90 or 35pts
Power klaw 10
Twin linked shoota 2 shots

So Meganobs are swinging at the same time with 1-2 more attacks if they charge and the same if they dont. They have mobility at a cheaper cost, and when they burry you in there attacks that allow inv saves only you loose your turminator squad, while they make take a wound on each modle... SM loose.

Nobz charging Terminators (tactical) is mutually-assured destruction.

Nobz have enough attacks to overwhelm 5+ invul, but Terminators kill about .8 nobz each due to double-toughness instadeath thanks to their power fists and no invuls on the MANz.

Although Nobz sort-of win the combat, it's more just trading model:model.

Assault Terms are where Nobz take the pooper. 3+ invul means it takes 2 Nobz to kill one Termie... while charging. Meanwhile that Termie is still killing .8 Nobz. If Assault Terms charge, it's terrible for the MANz.

GreyChaos wrote:You can give them 2 wounds...just mark them at 75 points each and we'll call it a day

QFT

meh. they are already point for point one of the best units in the game. 2 up save, most come standard with shields, the point of the unit is survivability. they already preform that function quite well.

I feel your pain when fighting Orks. Man for man Orks will win in this situation (I know through bitter experience), what you need to do is pick some of them off first with heavy weapons to even things up.

Surely any kind of fire will whittle them down. They are only T4 so eventually mass bolter fire will bring them down if all else fails.

That or higher initiative power weapons....Vanguard/Sanguinary Guard, i'm looking at you.

Obviously the meganobz are the superior unit. After all, I see squads of them in every single Ork list I've come across.

/sarcasm

valid point actually.....not to take thsi off topic, but why dont you see more of them?

From the notes above they seems to be a half decent unit. Is it just the S+P that lets them down? Coz you'd think that putting them in an open topped truck would negate that somewhat.

I think it's because they don't want to trust 200 points of S&P to having to footslog across a board because someone autocannoned the trukk with the megas in it first turn. The winning trick with most assaulty armies is to either come across the board all at once, or not to bother trying.


Disclaimer: I don't play Orks, but I know people who do, and I'm quite opinionated.

daedalus wrote:I think it's because they don't want to trust 200 points of S&P to having to footslog across a board because someone autocannoned the trukk with the megas in it first turn.

That's more or less the reasoning I always assumed. If you're facing 5 trukks of boyz and 1 of MANz, you can bet that one trukk is going to be seeing some serious firepower. Battlewagons mitigate the problem somewhat with the 14 front AV but even still...

But back on topic, I agree with master of ordinance. Two-wound terminators would either be overpowered or overcosted, so either way it's a bad situation. I've never understood, though, why at least the Veteran/Terminator Sergeants don't come with 5 WS or 5 BS, if not the whole squad. Or honour guard, for that matter. You're telling me the Chapter Master's going to keep a bunch of guys around to guard him who, empirically, are no better shots or more skilled arms than the newest guy in power armour?

Primestick wrote:200pts SM terminator squad 5 man
WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv2+
Can only take land raider 250pts
powerfist st 10
Stormbolter 2 shoots NOT TL

Meganobz 200pst 5 man quad
WS4 BS2 S4 T4 W2 I3 A3 Ld7 Sv2+
Can take battle wagon or trukk 90 or 35pts
Power klaw 10
Twin linked shoota 2 shots

So Meganobs are swinging at the same time with 1-2 more attacks if they charge and the same if they dont. They have mobility at a cheaper cost, and when they burry you in there attacks that allow inv saves only you loose your turminator squad, while they make take a wound on each modle... SM loose.

Note: BS 2 with Twin Linking gives a 2/3 chance of hitting, exactly the same as BS 4. Termies, then, have a slight advantage in shooting, because of their AP 5

SM Termies are S 8 with the powerfist, not 10. They have a 5+ Invul save, And They Shall Know No Fear, and whatever the specialty power of their chapter is(Combat Tactics, by default)

daedalus wrote:I think it's because they don't want to trust 200 points of S&P to having to footslog across a board because someone autocannoned the trukk with the megas in it first turn. The winning trick with most assaulty armies is to either come across the board all at once, or not to bother trying.

It's more than that. The current meta is filled to the brim with vehicles, space marines, and TH/SS terminators, so you can't shake a stick at an army list without hitting at least 8 missile launchers, meltaguns, plamsa weapons, lazcannons, or power fists, all of which are the bane of meganobz. It's not just a slow unit that will probably get it's transport shot out from under them, it's one that's weak against every weapon the other armies are spamming the hell out of.

I could not agree more...

the in game stats do not add up to the fantastic review they get in almost all SM fluff


apart from the 2+ AS perhaps.

Luke_Prowler wrote:

daedalus wrote:I think it's because they don't want to trust 200 points of S&P to having to footslog across a board because someone autocannoned the trukk with the megas in it first turn. The winning trick with most assaulty armies is to either come across the board all at once, or not to bother trying.

It's more than that. The current meta is filled to the brim with vehicles, space marines, and TH/SS terminators, so you can't shake a stick at an army list without hitting at least 8 missile launchers, meltaguns, plamsa weapons, lazcannons, or power fists, all of which are the bane of meganobz. It's not just a slow unit that will probably get it's transport shot out from under them, it's one that's weak against every weapon the other armies are spamming the hell out of.

except the misile launchers because they're only AP3

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:Note: BS 2 with Twin Linking gives a 2/3 chance of hitting, exactly the same as BS 4. Termies, then, have a slight advantage in shooting, because of their AP 5

well, technically, BS4 gives you a 66.6 chance of hitting while Twin-Linked BS2 give you a 55.5 chance of hitting.

edinburgh40kgamer wrote:I could not agree more...

the in game stats do not add up to the fantastic review they get in almost all SM fluff


apart from the 2+ AS perhaps.

and thier +1 Attack and powerfist and Storm Bolter fr double damage at range and something like 4 times as much mele damage plus they won't get blown away by a Leman Russ battle cannon or Basilisk Earth Shaker.

Lotet wrote:

Luke_Prowler wrote:

daedalus wrote:I think it's because they don't want to trust 200 points of S&P to having to footslog across a board because someone autocannoned the trukk with the megas in it first turn. The winning trick with most assaulty armies is to either come across the board all at once, or not to bother trying.

It's more than that. The current meta is filled to the brim with vehicles, space marines, and TH/SS terminators, so you can't shake a stick at an army list without hitting at least 8 missile launchers, meltaguns, plamsa weapons, lazcannons, or power fists, all of which are the bane of meganobz. It's not just a slow unit that will probably get it's transport shot out from under them, it's one that's weak against every weapon the other armies are spamming the hell out of.

except the misile launchers because they're only AP3

ML can fire S8, so they can Instant Death Meganobz. I wasn't just talking about weapons that ignore their saves

Luke_Prowler wrote:

Lotet wrote:

Luke_Prowler wrote:

daedalus wrote:I think it's because they don't want to trust 200 points of S&P to having to footslog across a board because someone autocannoned the trukk with the megas in it first turn. The winning trick with most assaulty armies is to either come across the board all at once, or not to bother trying.

It's more than that. The current meta is filled to the brim with vehicles, space marines, and TH/SS terminators, so you can't shake a stick at an army list without hitting at least 8 missile launchers, meltaguns, plamsa weapons, lazcannons, or power fists, all of which are the bane of meganobz. It's not just a slow unit that will probably get it's transport shot out from under them, it's one that's weak against every weapon the other armies are spamming the hell out of.

except the misile launchers because they're only AP3

ML can fire S8, so they can Instant Death Meganobz. I wasn't just talking about weapons that ignore their saves

a missile launcher fired from a BS3 soldier only has a 1:15 chance of killing a Meganob.

Look, it was just using it as an example, it wasn't the crux of my point. I was saying that there are a lot of weapons used in this edition that make the second wound on meganobz pointless

Luke_Prowler wrote:Look, it was just using it as an example, it wasn't the crux of my point. I was saying that there are a lot of weapons used in this edition that make the second wound on meganobz pointless

except the Plasma Guns because they're only S7

I kid, I kid. I'm just being a dork and nit-picking or something.

Praxiss wrote:valid point actually.....not to take thsi off topic, but why dont you see more of them?

From the notes above they seems to be a half decent unit. Is it just the S+P that lets them down? Coz you'd think that putting them in an open topped truck would negate that somewhat.

My oppo often plays orks and ALWAYS has a trukk with 10 nobz in - they ALWAYS do loads of damage - rs!

Back on the OP's topic, if termies had 2 wounds they'd be more like obliterators at 75 points each - ouch!

MANz work best in min squads of 3 in a Trukk; very low point investment that is still capable of stomping the crap out of most other similarly low point investment units or objective holders.

As front-line shock troops... they fail pretty hard due to getting shot to pieces and not being able to stand up to TH/SS Terms.

As said above due to the over abundance of str8 weapons giving termies 2w would not make them that more powerful. except of course in combat, first you have to get them there, thats 250pts gone pluss the 200pts for the termies thats over 450pts in one place very risky

Primestick wrote:200pts SM terminator squad 5 man
WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv2+
Can only take land raider 250pts
powerfist st 10
Stormbolter 2 shoots NOT TL

Meganobz 200pst 5 man quad
WS4 BS2 S4 T4 W2 I3 A3 Ld7 Sv2+
Can take battle wagon or trukk 90 or 35pts
Power klaw 10
Twin linked shoota 2 shots

So Meganobs are swinging at the same time with 1-2 more attacks if they charge and the same if they dont. They have mobility at a cheaper cost, and when they burry you in there attacks that allow inv saves only you loose your turminator squad, while they make take a wound on each modle... SM loose.

But give them lightning claws and they get the same number of attacks...

Also, a strength 8 hit can make those meganobz 2 wounds useless.

Personally, I feel that Terminators have no need for more than one wound unless it's an HQ. Gray Knights have 2 wounds, but they have far more limited options for their terminators. No SS/TH. No Cyclonic missile launcher. And no eternal warrior making 2 wounds normally about as useful as my Crisis Suits and Broadsides two wounds. Or heck. Even my Artharch from my Eldar with 3t and 3 wounds normally goes splat on the first hit... But Bloodcrushers and anything with Eternal Warrior is a pain. (I think it would mostly be a waste, or way overpowered. Either way, they don't need the extra wound.)

For having relentless, +2 armour save, 5+ invulnerable save, and other tricks up their sleeves, I don't think Terminators need anything more. They are well balanced as they are right now, if not a little too powerful in the right circumstances. Then again, no more overpowered than a Wraithlord in the right circumstances...