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i have been working on two lists, and dont know which one is best, so i will post them up here and see if i can get some help. at the first tournament i went to, i got best painted, but i lost 2 or my three games, and taht was really embarrassing for me, so now i want an army whit a little more (punch) behind. please let me know what you think:

1850 Pts - Codex: Space Marines Roster
    1 Chapter Master Pedro Kantor, 175 pts
   9 Sternguard Veteran Squad, 295 pts; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x5; Combi-Meltagun x2; Meltagun x2
      1 Sergeant Bolter; Power Fist x1
   1 Land Raider, 250 pts 2x Twin Linked Lascannons; Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter; Power of the Machine Spirit
   9 Tactical Squad, 210 pts Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Missile Launcher
      1 Sergeant Bolt Pistol; Chainsword x1
      1 Rhino Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter; Repair
   9 Tactical Squad, 210 pts Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Missile Launcher
      1 Sergeant Bolt Pistol; Chainsword x1
      1 Rhino Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Storm Bolter; Repair
   9 Tactical Squad, 275 pts Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x8; Meltagun; Lascannon
      1 Sergeant Bolt Pistol; Power Fist x1
      1 Razorback Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun
   9 Tactical Squad, 265 pts Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x8; Meltagun; Lascannon
      1 Sergeant Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon x1
      1 Razorback Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin-Linked Assault Cannon
   1 Predator, 85 pts Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Autocannon; Heavy Bolter (each side))
   1 Predator, 85 pts Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Autocannon; Heavy Bolter (each side))

And then there is this list, a completely different strategy. I dont know which way i want to slide on this one. i can see benefits to both army listsl. I also just dont know if going in all or nothing is the right play here... here is the other list.


   1 Chief Librarian Tigurius, 230 pts Hood of Hellfire; Bolt Pistol; Rod of Tigurius; Gift of Prescience; Independent Character; Master Psyker; Force Dome; Machine Curse; Might of the Ancients; Null Zone; Quickening; Smite; The Avenger; The Gate of Infinity; Vortex of Doom)
   4 Terminator Squad, 230 pts Storm Bolter x3; Assault Cannon
      1 Sergeant Power Weapon; Storm Bolter
   1 Ironclad Dreadnought, 180 pts Extra Armor; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Hunter-Killer Missile; Meltagun; Seismic Hammer; Hurricane Bolter; Move Through Cover
      1 Drop Pod Storm Bolter; Drop Pod Assault; Immobile; Inertial Guidance System
   9 Sternguard Veteran Squad, 330 pts Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x5; Combi-Meltagun x2; Meltagun x2
      1 Sergeant Bolter; Power Fist
      1 Drop Pod Storm Bolter; Drop Pod Assault; Immobile; Inertial Guidance System)
   9 Tactical Squad, 210 pts Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Missile Launcher
      1 Sergeant Bolt Pistol; Chainsword
      1 Drop Pod Storm Bolter; Drop Pod Assault; Immobile; Inertial Guidance System)
   9 Tactical Squad, 235 pts Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Missile Launcher
      1 Sergeant Bolt Pistol; Power Fist
      1 Drop Pod Storm Bolter; Drop Pod Assault; Immobile; Inertial Guidance System
   9 Tactical Squad, 225 pts Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Missile Launcher; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics
      1 Sergeant Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon
      1 Drop Pod Storm Bolter; Drop Pod Assault; Immobile; Inertial Guidance System
   9 Tactical Squad, 210 pts Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Missile Launcher
      1 Sergeant Bolt Pistol; Chainsword
      1 Drop Pod Storm Bolter; Drop Pod Assault; Immobile; Inertial Guidance System


so those are my two lists. which one would do better in a slightly laid back meta, and why?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, sorry, i actually have one more army list. and a friend just sent me over a list he created, so i will post that once we can get some of this sorted out. i am actually curious how close my list ends up looking like his after taking into consideration the feedback you all can provide.

the last is a complete gimmick army, but this juts seems like it should be good right?

HQ: Master of the Forge (1#, 130 pts)

   1 Master of the Forge, 130 pts = (base cost 100 + Thunder Hammer 30)



Heavy Support: Dreadnought (2#, 150 pts)

   1 Dreadnought, 115 pts = (base cost 105 + Assault Cannon 10)

      1 Drop Pod, 35 pts



Heavy Support: Dreadnought (2#, 180 pts)

   1 Dreadnought, 145 pts = (base cost 105 + Heavy Flamer 10 + Twin-Linked Lascannon 30)

      1 Drop Pod, 35 pts



Heavy Support: Dreadnought (2#, 160 pts)

   1 Dreadnought, 125 pts = (base cost 105 + Twin-Linked Autocannon 10 + Twin-Linked Autocannon 10)

      1 Drop Pod, 35 pts



Elite: Ironclad Dreadnought (2#, 190 pts)

   1 Ironclad Dreadnought, 155 pts = (base cost 135 + Hunter-Killer Missile(s) x2 20)

      1 Drop Pod, 35 pts



Elite: Ironclad Dreadnought (2#, 190 pts)

   1 Ironclad Dreadnought, 155 pts = (base cost 135 + Hunter-Killer Missile(s) x2 20)

      1 Drop Pod, 35 pts



Elite: Dreadnought (2#, 150 pts)

   1 Dreadnought, 115 pts = (base cost 105 + Heavy Flamer 10)

      1 Drop Pod, 35 pts



Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 210 pts)

   9 Tactical Squad, 152 pts = 9 * 16 (base cost 16) + Meltagun 5 + Sergeant 26

      1 Sergeant, 23 pts

      1 Rhino, 35 pts



Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 210 pts)

   9 Tactical Squad, 152 pts = 9 * 16 (base cost 16) + Meltagun 5 + Sergeant 26

      1 Sergeant, 23 pts

      1 Rhino, 35 pts



Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (2#, 140 pts)

   2 Land Speeder Squadron, 140 pts = 2 * 50 (base cost 50) + Multi-melta x2 20 + Heavy Flamer x2 20



Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (2#, 140 pts)

   2 Land Speeder Squadron, 140 pts = 2 * 50 (base cost 50) + Multi-melta x2 40

DREADNAUGHT LAND! If you like Naughts then play BA

With scoring sternguards(pedro kantor list), there is no need for that many tacticals. Use the points to fill up other foc slots, ie, landspeeder typhoons, dreadnoughts and/or other units.
Vanilla SM has its strengths in elite and non-troop foc slots, troop spam is for other chapters.
But you have to protect the few troops you have, so no suicide drop pods with troops then.

i would go for combimeltas with how you will be using your tactical squads in both lists.

You first list isn't really a Kantor list. You'll need a cc hammer usually assault termies and a range of long range threat usually a few more lascannons.

The issue I have with drop pod lists is that if your enemy doesn't deploy on the battlefield you have to guess where to land the pods. Your lists do not have this issue which is great.

For list 2 Cyclone missile for the termies maybe a few multimeltas for some tacticals. I would go for stern guard with loads of combimeltas so your drop pods have an awesome initial impact: the tactical squads will not give the killer blow and the Iron clad has to wait to charge. Not sure this list uses Telion.

The third list is interesting. Drop podding dreads into melta range leads to dead dreads, but you do have a lot of them so it may work.

You could change the third list into a walk and shoot list. You loose the drop pods get shootier dreads give MotF his big gun and bike, then maybe get bikes as your troops.

If you want a tactical deployment with Telion try the following. His skill gives any reserve unit 3/4 chance of coming on in the second turn so put your whole army into reserve that is not in drop pods. Then if you opponent goes first you waste 2 of his turns and one your own.
Stuff like razorback spam can move on from your edge and get the first shots. Even combimelta, melta, mulitmelta Legion of the damned works as it is highly likely two squads will come on and kill tanks before your they can shoot your army. Bike troops can move on and shoot as well. Against the fluff Vulkan and Khan will work well with this idea.