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Have anyone had any success with this wargear?

I keep hearing about the Archon+Husk+SoulTrap combo... but are they really that effective? Archon starts out with STR3 and needs to kill a MC or IC to beef up to STR5... Unless there's some paintokensShenanigans for FC or some other wargear, I don't think this combo is as easy as one thinks...

My thought to effectively use the Huskblade is to equip the Haemy with this sword in a Wrack/Grotesque unit. That way, he starts the game with FC (STR4 on the charge) and packs a punch with 4 attacks on the charge...

Thoughts?

Charge archon into enemy unit and swing huskblade. 'Nuff said

You know the huskblade causes instant death right? That's the whole point of it. You charge a MC, hope to roll a 6 to wound, and bam you're done. Same thing with an IC except you usually only need a 5 to wound, but they probably have an invulnerable save. Either way you are now S6 and the fun begins. The risk is that you don't get lucky and fail to kill something, which is probably why a lot of people dont depend on this combo.

Putting it on a haemonculus would be a bad idea as well. First of all, the point of a haemonculus is to be a cheap hq that gives a free pain token to an important unit. Huskblade almost doubles his point cost. Second, the haemonculus is an independent character that is not stellar in combat, with I4. Against other ICs, they are going to go first, single him out, and probably kill him with his T4, 6+ save, and no invlun. Against most MCs, he'll still go first, but having less attacks than the archon makes rolling that 6 to wound less likely. In addition, if the huskblade fails to kill the MC, the archon will almost definitely survive the return attacks (shadowfield), while the haemonculus will almost certainly get killed.

^^^ Thats kinda my point.

I'd rather use a Haemy equipped Huskblade... needing only 4's vs T4 (nobs, pally, etc...)... than using an Archon+Husky HOPING for the 6's vs MC or 5's vs IC. If my opponent was smart, they'd keep the MC/IC away from the Archon.

Whereas in this list, I have TWO Haemy+Husky that'll likely do something... know what I mean?

Anyhoo... I guess I'd better step up and simply playtest this.

Thanks!

Putting it on a haemonculus would be a bad idea as well. First of all, the point of a haemonculus is to be a cheap hq that gives a free pain token to an important unit. Huskblade almost doubles his point cost. Second, the haemonculus is an independent character that is not stellar in combat, with I4. Against other ICs, they are going to go first, single him out, and probably kill him with his T3, 6+ save, and no invlun. Against most MCs, he'll still go first, but having less attacks than the archon makes rolling that 6 to wound less likely. In addition, if the huskblade fails to kill the MC, the archon will almost definitely survive the return attacks (shadowfield), while the haemonculus will almost certainly get ID'd.

Here's the thing... I'm NOT throwing the Haemy units against the MC/IC... that's what all those poison/lance shots are for

I was trying something different than the usual trueborn/wych units, and this list needs "some" assault capability.... hence, the haemy+grotie idea.

Right, but look at it this way:

Haemonculus charging gets 4 attacks against the targets you mention. 2 hit, 1 wound, you kill one nob or paladin.

Archon charging gets 6 attacks, 4 hits, 1.333 wounds.

The archon also went before the enemy could strike back in both cases, while VS. the paladins the haemonculus struck at the same time.

If your opponent was smart, they'd keep the MC/IC away from the haemonculi as well. If you're planning for that, and wanting to use the haemonculus as a nob/paladin killer, then it just isn't worth it. You pay 85 points for him to charge in, kill one model, and then be slaughtered in return. The archon with a huskblade and shadowfield costs 40 points more, but is very difficult to kill while being more killy in return.

Again, having two doesn't mean they're likely to do something, because one isn't likely to do anything in the first place. If you don't intend on sending them after MCs or ICs, they really are just a waste of points, especially when you face an opponent without 2 wound models like nobs or paladins, which should be fairly often.


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If you really want a close combat haemonculus, I'd just give him an agonizer. Against most targets, he will get the same amount of kills, for cheaper. Again though, I really do not think it is worth it due to his extreme fragility and points cost.

hmmm... good point.

Maybe, I'd just ditch the idea altogether and get some beast squads (already have one).

Thanks!

If you do the figuring, a charging Archon with a Huskblade has about an 80% chance of getting at least one wound against T4 and about a 50% of getting at least one wound against a T5 or T6 model.

If you factor in Combat Drugs, the odds will improve with the +1 Attack, +1 Strength, and Re-roll To- Wound drug results, and can also be improved if you get the Pain Token result (if the Archon is in a unit that starts with a token).

I actually haven't played my DE in quite some time, but in the five or so games I've played with the Huskblade/Soultrap Archon, I've one-shotted a Trygon, an Okr Warboss on a bike, multiple Sanguinary Priests, Gabriel Seth, Dante, and some HQ from a Chaos army.

Also, the Soultrap doubles the Archon's strength, so the first kill qualifying would make him S6, not S5. Once you get the Archon up to S6, he's just plain unfair to your opponents. Against most enemy IC's, it's like having a WS7 DCCW that strikes before they do.

I love a Huskblade Archon in higher points games.

For anything less than 2,000, I'll just use Haemonculi.

But at 2,000+ points, I run an Archon with Huskblade, Soul Trap, Combat Drugs, and Clone Field.

Yes, Clone Field. Wait a moment and you'll see why.

I attach him to a 9 woman strong unit of Hekatrix Bloodbrides that has a Syren with an agoniser and three shardnets.

Some of you might be catching on now.

Now, here's where things get a bit more complex. When it comes to arranging my squad, I always have my Archon surrounded by the 3 Shardnet brides. When I make my assault moves, the Archon at the head of the unit moves into base contact with the IC I want to assassinate. Let's say for example's sake that it's a Space Marine Chapter Master. He has 4 attacks on account of the fact that I charged him. Well, now all three of my shardnets move into base contact with that Chapter Master. -3 attacks on the Chapter Master. So he has one close combat attack. Provided he gets to make it (that is, I don't kill him in the first round of combat with the huskblade) he has to first hit me on 5+, then wound me on a 3+ or 2+ depending on his weapon, and then I get to negate it with a clone. Even if I roll a 1 on my clone field... He only has 1 attack. And if you play your cards right when making your assault moves, you can completely box off your Archon so the IC he's trying to kill is the only thing capable of hitting him. If you practice, and get good at making your assault moves, you can make your Archon nigh-invulnerable until he's strength 6 and has feel no pain.

I've played 4 games with this combination, and I haven't had my Archon suffer more than a single wound in any of these games. He has killed his target in every single game save one, where the Space Wolves player wised up to my shenanigans and kept his Rune Priest behind his unit where I couldn't get at him with the Archon. That being said, ICs and MCs are no trouble with this tactic. MCs in particular, provided it isn't above toughness 6, at which point the Archon can't hurt it unless he gets the +strength drug. Because MCs can't join units, I don't have to be tricksy with my pile ins, I can just trap it up in shardnets and wait for a 6.

It is probably the priciest single unit I'd consider fielding in a DE army though. With a Flickerfield Raider to transport the kill-team, it all comes up to 382 points. More, if you wanna throw haywire grenades on the brides and archon to make them a vehicle threat.

Huskblade, Soul Trap, Combat Drugs, Shadowfield, Phantasm Grenade Launcher with some Incubi. I run this at 1500 pts up and its great.
Everyone has already listed the benefits of drugs/blade/soul trap...so i dont need to reiterate
but i do want to make one point...there has been no effective way (in my 36 games as DE) to keep your ICs away from my Archon...the ability to move far in Raiders, and Fleet make him cover vast distances in surprising amounts of time.

I do a tactic similiar to lokas except I gear the bloodbrides with razorflails because I prefer to have re-rolls to kill that IC's retinue better. Ofcourse a shadowfield works better with this variation. For the haemonculous I've had some success with them being a red herring by leaving their group with his pain token and then sniping with a hexrifle or shattershard if they get too close.

lledwey wrote:You know the huskblade causes instant death right? That's the whole point of it. You charge a MC, hope to roll a 6 to wound, and bam you're done. Same thing with an IC except you usually only need a 5 to wound, but they probably have an invulnerable save. Either way you are now S6 and the fun begins. The risk is that you don't get lucky and fail to kill something, which is probably why a lot of people dont depend on this combo.

Putting it on a haemonculus would be a bad idea as well. First of all, the point of a haemonculus is to be a cheap hq that gives a free pain token to an important unit. Huskblade almost doubles his point cost. Second, the haemonculus is an independent character that is not stellar in combat, with I4. Against other ICs, they are going to go first, single him out, and probably kill him with his T4, 6+ save, and no invlun. Against most MCs, he'll still go first, but having less attacks than the archon makes rolling that 6 to wound less likely. In addition, if the huskblade fails to kill the MC, the archon will almost definitely survive the return attacks (shadowfield), while the haemonculus will almost certainly get killed.

Very good analysis what is going on here. ''

But the again. The DE has tons of poison shots to take care of MC:s and stuff with multiple wounds. Many better IC have EW show no effect there.

In fact, an Archon with huskblade is not the most effective one at the battle field. My Archon always gets an agonizer enabling him to wound every model at 4+.

Initially, no. An Archo with a huskblade is not as effective as an Archon with an Agoniser. But kill one IC, or MC and you've got a strength 6 Archon. Kill another, suddenly you've got a strength 10 archon rampaging across the battlefield in a horrifying orgy of slaughter.

I won't say the agoniser isn't effective, it is. But the agoniser is what it is, and it cannot be improved upon. It's never going to wound on a 3+ or a 2+, and it's never going to be a threat to vehicles. It's a safe bet, one that will always work the way you want it to work but without any potential to be improved upon.

The extra 25 points you pay for the huskblade and soul trap is for the opportunity to have an unfairly powerful IC rampaging through the enemy lines.