1500 CSM List - help needed - LIST UPDATED

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**Praxiss**

***UPDATED LIST AT BOTTOM OF THREAD***

Spoiler:

**Valek**

only remarks:

10 csm change to another 7 plagues like you already have
Defilers only ever should have 2 additional CCW
Give the Dread a Missile launcher so he doesnt pop you vehicles when going firefrenzy...

not a bad list.

**space_marine_horder_24**

i like Valeks remarks but also watch out for LRR's they rip plagues apart

**rodgers37**

space_marine_horder_24 wrote:i like Valeks remarks but also watch out for LRR's they rip plagues apart

Not as much as they rip Marines without FNP apart.... You still get FNP against a the flamestorm or whatever the LRR weapon is called...

**Praxiss**

I thought FNP didn't work against anythgin that negated your armour save (so for an MEQ, anything AP3 or lower woudl get no FNP)

**mercer**

Not sure why the Plague Marines have 7 Marines in the unit, you only need 5 to get double specials. Anything after is just excess baggage.

Dreadnoughts should come in pairs, missile launcher would be better so you can fire a frag at your own vehicle just in case etc.

Defilers are meh. Not that awesome at shooting nor at combat, and one always suffers for the other. It's a real confused unit.

Vindicators should always come in pairs, I would drop it and take triple Defilers if you have too..

**Praxiss**

The 7 plague marines is just for fluff purposes really. Isn't 7 the sacred number of Nurgle?

Hmmm, no more Defilers. I could:

a) drop the Defilers in favor of triple Vindicators.
b) drop the Vindicator in favour of 3 Obliterators

Just out of curiosity. Why should Dreads always be deployed in pairs? Is it so you can charge both of them in or just for target saturation?

**mercer**

Who cares if it's a sacred number

it doesn't make them any better or survive better does it? Just costs more points which means less of a army in unit size.

Vindicators are good for taking fire, but a single weapon destroyed ruins their day - beware. Obliterators are ok but expensive, the multi role of them may mean you might not get enough out of them. Have you considered Havocs for 155 points for 5 dudes and 4 missile launchers? Adds some nice long range fire power.

Target saturation for Dreadnoughts, like anything else.

**Praxiss**

Gotcha. I usually prefer not to take Havocs as their effectiveness is based purely on their initial position. Whereas the other HS choices can move and still deliver big guns.

I am trying to get out of the habit of ALWAYS fielding obliterators and changing things up. Plus, as you said, they ever seem to live up to their potential.

**Samus_aran115**

Praxiss wrote:DP - Wings, MoN, Warptime

7 Plague Marines - 2 Meltas, Champ, PFist, Icon, Rhino (combi melta)
10 CSM - 2 Meltas, IoCG, Rhino (combi melta)
8 Berzerkers - Champ, PFist, Rhino (Combi Melta)

Dread - Lascannon, H.Flamer

Defiler - Reaper, Extra DCCW
Defiler - Reaper, Havoc
Vindicator

I see what you're going for, but I don't like something about this. The CSM unit is... what? Cannon fodder? Why not just take a smaller unit of plague marines instead? They'll last much longer, and might even do something

Dread seems okay. There's a chance it might punch through a transport or defiler, and potentially wreck the game though.

What is the vindicator doing? You have two defilers with battlecannons, why waste the points?

Also. Taking sacred numbers is.... a waste of time, to say the least...

**Praxiss**

Ok, so how about taking the PMs down to 5 with 2 meltas, and spending the saved points on taking the 'zerkers up to a full 10 men?

The CSM squad is there because i dont have enough PM models yet to field 2 full units. I could always proxy CSMs as PMs but i would prefer not to.

**mercer**

Praxiss wrote:Gotcha. I usually prefer not to take Havocs as their effectiveness is based purely on their initial position. Whereas the other HS choices can move and still deliver big guns.

I am trying to get out of the habit of ALWAYS fielding obliterators and changing things up. Plus, as you said, they ever seem to live up to their potential.

Vindicator can only move 6" and fire, Defiler can only move 6" and fire, Predator (not in your list) can only move 6" and fire. All vehicles have limitations (except walkers) for moving and shooting. If you position the Havocs right you won't need to move them again.

I think with Obliterators they have too much going on so it's rare you will make use of everything. Best use I found was them foot slogging behind Rhinos which they can fire lascannons, then once closer multi meltas at things like Rhinos and plasma at troops etc. Once within the magic 6" they could burn infantry and fist them or melta a tank or fist or plasma elite infantry and fist. The latter options rarely happened though.

**Praxiss**

Exactly. I find my best tactic with 'blitz is to rhino rush an icon into the enemy and then DS the 'blitz in so they dont scatter. If it works you give them lots of lovely targets at close range.

**Almarine**

By the way, just because a weapon ignores YOUR armour save doesn't make it a weapon that *ignores armour saves*. The only shooting that negates FNP is AP2, AP1 and shooting with a strength of twice its target's toughness.

**Praxiss**

gotcha. havn't been using Plague marnes for long so FNP is still pretty new to me.

**Praxiss**

OK, did some fast clipping and repainting last night so i now have a few more plague marines to play with.

Hows this:

DP - Wings, MoN, Warptime
5 Plague Marines - 2 meltas, champ, fist, rhino
5 Plague Marines - 2 Plasma, champ, power weapon, rhino
10 'Zerkers - champ, fist, rhino
Dread - Lascannons
Defiler
Defiler
Vindicator

The plan is for the plasma plagues to guard the home objective. The zerkers rush off to crush infantry targets. the Dp is to deal with any pesky ICs. The Defilers and Vindi can try to pop tanks to muller whel squads as oppotunities coem up.

the downside is i am countign on a 5 man plague squad and my zerkers to capture other objectives....

Is that enough troops for a 1500 point game? Should i drop the Dread and/or Vindi in favour of a CSM squad to assault or capture other obejctives?

**Samus_aran115**

Praxiss wrote:OK, did some fast clipping and repainting last night so i now have a few more plague marines to play with.

Hows this:

DP - Wings, MoN, Warptime
5 Plague Marines - 2 meltas, champ, fist, rhino
5 Plague Marines - 2 Plasma, champ, power weapon, rhino
10 'Zerkers - champ, fist, rhino
Dread - Lascannons
Defiler
Defiler
Vindicator

The plan is for the plasma plagues to guard the home objective. The zerkers rush off to crush infantry targets. the Dp is to deal with any pesky ICs. The Defilers and Vindi can try to pop tanks to muller whel squads as oppotunities coem up.

the downside is i am countign on a 5 man plague squad and my zerkers to capture other objectives....

Is that enough troops for a 1500 point game? Should i drop the Dread and/or Vindi in favour of a CSM squad to assault or capture other obejctives?

I like this list. you have two effective troops for tank, and one big unit for assaults. Very nice. The heavy support seems fine as well. Although triple vindicator is nasty

**Praxiss**

Nice to get a positive response. lol.

I am still considering taking triple Vindicators......it would look pretty scary and in a 1500 point game could do some serious damage.

Should probably point out that all 3 rhinos also have combi meltas as well as the TL bolters on them.

**Samus_aran115**

Praxiss wrote:Nice to get a positive response. lol.

I am still considering taking triple Vindicators......it would look pretty scary and in a 1500 point game could do some serious damage.

Should probably point out that all 3 rhinos also have combi meltas as well as the TL bolters on them.

Oh.... that's pretty nasty

Surprise! I blew your rhino up with my rhino!

**Praxiss**

That's the plan. Lol.

might go with Triple Vinds just for Lulz and something different.

**Samus_aran115**

If you do, make sure you take possession. It really ruins your day when a lucky shaken or stunned makes your pie plate shooter useless

**Praxiss**

Good point. Cheers.

Putting Dp on all 3 Vindis means i have to drop down to 8 'Zerkers. Pretty even trade i suppose.

This game will be a challenge. I have started going to a gems club soi'm not with my normal gamign group of 4 other friends, all of whom normally field the same stuff. All i know is that this list will be facing a Crimson Fist army. No idea what the guyhas, how he plays. nothing. A PROPER GAME!

**rigeld2**

Praxiss wrote:I thought FNP didn't work against anythgin that negated your armour save (so for an MEQ, anything AP3 or lower woudl get no FNP)

If it actually denies you an armor save, or is AP1 or AP2, FNP doesn't work. If your armor is penned by something (bolter firing at Tyranids, AP3 shooting MEQs) FNP works fine.