Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Finding my place in the world of orks. Could any players who run a KoS army tell me about their experiences? It sounds like a fun build.

I use more of a mech-list rather than KoS. For instance I don't usually run bikers or Warbuggies, or even Deffkoptas for that matter, just trukk mobs. Anywho here's this:

-Lootas are your friend
-Rokkit Buggies give cheap cover saves while providing distractions, contesting objectives and taking side armor shots on armor
-Nob Bikers are still one of the strongest units in the game, but your enemy will focus small arms fire on them since they have no AV
-Deffkoptas provide a glass jaw unit able to alpha strike tanks, go great with a Biker Warboss
-Save your KFF for things like Battlewagons, not trukks. If you use trukks either hide them behind BW's or spam them. (i.e.-5-6 trukk boy squads AT LEAST)
-Kommandos help to save your vehicles if they strike early on, forcing your opponent out of his/her deployment zone and closer to you
-Ard boyz in Battlewagon, Burnas in Battlewagon, Tankbustas in Battlewagon, Meganobs/Nobs in Battlewagon. All are viable options
-Do not put aforementioned units in a flimsy trukk, elite infantry NEED the BW or else they will die first
-Slugga/choppas go in trukks or assaulty BW's, Shootas go in Battlewagons for mobile bunkers near objectives
-If you must, use Looted Wagons as spare transports, although the BW is far superior

Generally the Waz-man is a good option. I wrote a 1500 Kult of Speed list and I'll post it 'ere

Warboss Squigga 145
Warboss
Big Choppa
Shoota-Skorcha Kombi Weapon
Warbike
Cybork Body
Eavy Armour
Attack Squig
Bosspole

Wazdakka Gutsmek 180

Total HQ: 325

Wazdakka’s Boyz 315
12 Warbikes
Nob
Big Choppa

Squigga’s Boyz 315
12 Warbikes
Nob
Big Choppa

Da apocalypse Bikerz 145
5 Warbikes
Nob
Big Choppa
Bosspole

Da Heraldz of da WAAAGH! 145
5 Warbikes
Nob
Big Choppa
Bosspole

Total Troops: 910

Da Trukk 215
Battlewagon
Killcannon
Deff rolla
ZZap Gun
2 Big Shootas
2 rokkit launchers

Da Kan 50
Killa Kan
Grot Riggers
Skorcha

Heavy Suppport: 265

Yeah that's my favorite homemade warboss in the game right now, the one with the BigChoppa and the squig, he really is the coolest model and most awesome non-power weapon choice in the whole game.

Wazdakka is always a good choice.

I'd run 4 trukks w/ 11 shoota boyz + NOB/PK, red paint and some koptas with 2 warbosses and nobz as troops on bikes with the warbosses as troops, never less than five bikes in a troop, one should be a painboy, throw in a single or 2 PK's.
Rile up your elite with 3 squads of 3 linear nobz w/BW transports and put deffrollas, red paint, and kannons on them nothing else. That might be a cool list. So many different ways you can go with Lists when running orks is why I don't play anything else or haven't found the need to yet.
The suggested list is something I merely enjoy playing, though I remember having to cut points somewhere I forget where it was.

Boris420 wrote:I use more of a mech-list rather than KoS. For instance I don't usually run bikers or Warbuggies, or even Deffkoptas for that matter, just trukk mobs. Anywho here's this:

-Lootas are your friend
-Rokkit Buggies give cheap cover saves while providing distractions, contesting objectives and taking side armor shots on armor
-Nob Bikers are still one of the strongest units in the game, but your enemy will focus small arms fire on them since they have no AV
-Deffkoptas provide a glass jaw unit able to alpha strike tanks, go great with a Biker Warboss
-Save your KFF for things like Battlewagons, not trukks. If you use trukks either hide them behind BW's or spam them. (i.e.-5-6 trukk boy squads AT LEAST)
-Kommandos help to save your vehicles if they strike early on, forcing your opponent out of his/her deployment zone and closer to you
-Ard boyz in Battlewagon, Burnas in Battlewagon, Tankbustas in Battlewagon, Meganobs/Nobs in Battlewagon. All are viable options
-Do not put aforementioned units in a flimsy trukk, elite infantry NEED the BW or else they will die first
-Slugga/choppas go in trukks or assaulty BW's, Shootas go in Battlewagons for mobile bunkers near objectives
-If you must, use Looted Wagons as spare transports, although the BW is far superior

I'd only disagree on one thing, Trukks definitively need a KFF. Assuming everything shooting at it penetrates, a trukk has a 33% chance of staying unharmed. Add a KFF and you go up to 66%, doubling the chance of a trukk surviving any given shot. If you are spamming Trukks, add two KFFs somewhere.

I agree with Jidmah and I'd also like to say that meganobs in a trukk can work, but you can't leave them alone, I have 6 trukks and 9 buggies with them so unless theirs a hill, often they can't even see your trukk. Especially if you're like me and you've got 3 oldschool models

for kff and trukks I agree it is pretty much a must, thoguht if you KNOW there will be alto of big terrain it might be possible to skirt it... i still wouldn't chance it

Ok, here's my take on KFF's and trukks. Sure they can give them a 4+ save, which would be nice and dandy since EVERYTHING can kill them par lasguns and grotblastas. Hence they would work if they only had 1-2 shots against them. They would be able to manage a save or two. HOWEVER in most games there will definitely be more than one shot, and I'm talking about at least 3-4 shots. Most of those shots are gonna pen against the paper trukk, so your going to be forced to make around 3-4 saves against a single trukk that's going to die no matter what anyway. Luck is not on your side at this point. Sure you can save 1-2 glances or pens, but what about the other two? Then you have just wasted your HQ on something meant for BW's and anything ABOVE AV10. Plus, with trukks, your in assault by Turn 2 anyway, so that 85-170 pt investment in KFF's is useful for a single turn only when you can take a Biker Warboss or two. Just my 2 cents. I will NEVER use KFF's again with trukks because they just aren't worth it as autocannons or even heavy bolters will rip them to shreds by Turn 1 with or without a KFF. If it was a Battlewagon, COMPLETELY different story since you'll probably make about 1-2 saves if that so the KFF is doing it's actual job as insurance, not as a mainline defence hub. Try to playtest it and make your own opinion. Perhaps I just face Tau and IG too much to see the good in it anymore compared to a WB or Ghazzy. I think KFF"s are meant for Kans, Dreads and BW's, not AV10. That's what Buggies are for.

just read your first post, as to experience. Sorry.
I love it, I haven't lost a game with my kult of speed armies.
However, SpaceWolves make NobBikers angry. JawsOfTheWorldWolf or whatever can streamline bikes without a care or LoS because of orks Initiative, so when facing SW be careful how you line up your models in retrospect to the psyker with this power.
Outflanking with koptas helps in every game not just speed lists. It's a 9/10 maybe 7/10 win win situation which is really good for orks.
I haven't played buggies but everyone who has loves them. I just like the skimmer and hit and run quality of deff koptas because with a buzzsaw a kopta can also be used to eliminate marine troops squads sitting on objectives very effectively. AS well as Tau, Eldar, and not so much Dark Eldar or Tyranid unless that Tyranid squad is the spermy things. Necrons I don't remember as I didn't get a chance to use koptas against that player before they left just green tided them for wins. It can also tear apart IG troops sitting on objective but they are usually better for mech hunting. The point is I feel they are very versatile as oppose to buggies, this follows my playstyle however.
Battlewagons and trukks have changed the game for me, I refuse to field a lot of them in fun games because they are really amazing in retrospect as they get boyz who are supposed to be walking with PK's right into an enemies face while providing extra damage themselves for not a heavy price.
Bikes don't field in smaller than six squads. If Nob Bikers five with one as a painboy works great and a warboss. That's a squad that you don't really need multiples of. It's a bit OP. In my experience.
Trukks with KFF or BW's with KFF really depends on how you want to play. IN Kult of Speed lists I wouldn't run KFF at all I'd spam the points on faster stuff, and if I did, (ok I have.) I would stuff it in the BW. The trukks in that list are usually just fodder I hope wil score some kills or grab objectives. Plus they still get the save if they are within 6" of the Battlewagons hull. That's awesome.
A Warboss allows you to field nobs as troops which can take bikes which still gives you three fast slots for koptas or buggies or more bikes. Which I believe is better than using the HQ slots for KFF, or at least only bother with one in and throw him in your BW if you're running it for the 6" from the hull stuff.
Though I agree in smaller point games KFF is not wasted on Trukks and has served me well.

Runna wrote:
A Warboss allows you to field nobs as troops which can take bikes which still gives you three fast slots for koptas or buggies or more bikes. Which I believe is better than using the HQ slots for KFF, or at least only bother with one in and throw him in your BW if you're running it for the 6" from the hull stuff.

Biker nobs are an elites choice. Biker boys (with one nob) are fast attack. So you'd be freeing up slots for lootas, burnas, tankbustas, meganobz, etc, not buggies or koptas.

Boris420 wrote:Ok, here's my take on KFF's and trukks. Sure they can give them a 4+ save, which would be nice and dandy since EVERYTHING can kill them par lasguns and grotblastas. Hence they would work if they only had 1-2 shots against them. They would be able to manage a save or two. HOWEVER in most games there will definitely be more than one shot, and I'm talking about at least 3-4 shots. Most of those shots are gonna pen against the paper trukk, so your going to be forced to make around 3-4 saves against a single trukk that's going to die no matter what anyway. Luck is not on your side at this point. Sure you can save 1-2 glances or pens, but what about the other two? Then you have just wasted your HQ on something meant for BW's and anything ABOVE AV10. Plus, with trukks, your in assault by Turn 2 anyway, so that 85-170 pt investment in KFF's is useful for a single turn only when you can take a Biker Warboss or two. Just my 2 cents. I will NEVER use KFF's again with trukks because they just aren't worth it as autocannons or even heavy bolters will rip them to shreds by Turn 1 with or without a KFF. If it was a Battlewagon, COMPLETELY different story since you'll probably make about 1-2 saves if that so the KFF is doing it's actual job as insurance, not as a mainline defence hub. Try to playtest it and make your own opinion. Perhaps I just face Tau and IG too much to see the good in it anymore compared to a WB or Ghazzy. I think KFF"s are meant for Kans, Dreads and BW's, not AV10. That's what Buggies are for.

Trick is, you don't have to save the Trukk. All you have to do to get your points worth from a KFF is make your opponent expend more resources per trukk to suppress or destroy them. That KFF can mean the difference between half your Trukks hitting their lines and none of your trukks hitting their lines.

Case in point: Trukks are barreling toward 5 man Purifiers. 8 Psycannon shots and 6 Stormbolter shots from the purifiers target a trukk.

No cover: Trukk has a 37.8% chance of survival (no result of destroyed on the damage table.)
KFF active: Trukk has a 62.3% chance of survival under the same conditions.

That 24.5% difference can have a huge effect. Every time an opponent has to use 2 units to kill a trukk instead of 1 you get more Boyz closer to his lines, and isn't that the whole point of trukks?

nicksavage wrote:

Runna wrote:
A Warboss allows you to field nobs as troops which can take bikes which still gives you three fast slots for koptas or buggies or more bikes. Which I believe is better than using the HQ slots for KFF, or at least only bother with one in and throw him in your BW if you're running it for the 6" from the hull stuff.

Biker nobs are an elites choice. Biker boys (with one nob) are fast attack. So you'd be freeing up slots for lootas, burnas, tankbustas, meganobz, etc, not buggies or koptas.

Bikernobs are ALSO troops when a warboss is on the field, weather he is on a bike or not doesnt matter. fyi

ummm, my point was that you don't need biker boyz because you have nob bikers which are troops now because of your warboss so you can pretty much get bikes as troops because of the warboss without having to take bikes from the fast attack slot.
i.e. now you can have bikes on board without using the fast attack slot for bikes or fielding wazdakka, although Wazdakka is cool. and if you want can still field three more bike squads. or take wazdakka and a warboss, run 5 bike squads as troop, 1 nob bikers as troops, run 3 more bikes as fastand 3 more nob bikers as elite. that's f*n ridiculous right there.
That was off topic...or it wasn't, I'm not sure. But I didn't mean to reference the need for taking an elite spot as nobz on bikes can't take a BW as a dedicated transport, so my point was that you didn't need to add more bikes into your Kult of Speed list because you had them as NobBikers for troops. Not that you were taking an extra fast choice as a troop choice, just that you already had bikes on the field because of your warboss letting you take nobz as troop choices. I have yet to curve my dilemma of assuming people can understand the very sporadic way I word my definitions and/or opinions. Which is why I have so many proofreaders of my actual work, but sadly none for my posts.
Apologizing for stupidy is a sign of great character. Not being stupid is a sign of a robotic component possessing your brain and thus making you an enemy to mankind.

Trukker lists are great fun. Mine myself is warboss with PK and bitz, nobz in a trukk, sluggas in trukks and some biker squads. And the bikers are the star of the army to be quite frank, besides the PK Boss 6-man biker units with PK/BP nob leaders are a fantastic little unit with high durability and a tendency to go unnoticed until it's too late.

KFF on trukks is debateable but I'm going to try it out myself - the rate of which a trukk goes boom is frightening sometimes. Though one thing I would stress - expect the trukks to die. Being fussy over them I found creates slightly less aggressive play, which is pretty much the opposite of playing a trukker list. Take the lot and throw it at something I say

Nob Bikers are awesome with a Warboss, Painboy, Waaagh! Banner, and wound allocation. They can kill every unit except for those that Instant Kill them like Terminators and units with Force Weapons. Boyz Trukks are just enough to be annoying and maybe take out a tank. Boyz in Battlewagons are numerous enough to take on all comers. I make them shoota boyz and let the 40 dice from the hull of the wagon speak for them until somebody Deffkoptas have the best Ork shooting with Twin Linked Rokkits S8 AP3, and they can Scout, Turbo Boost, and Outflank. Warbikers and Nobs have Twin-Linked Dakka Gunz.

Tuagh wrote:

Boris420 wrote:Ok, here's my take on KFF's and trukks. Sure they can give them a 4+ save, which would be nice and dandy since EVERYTHING can kill them par lasguns and grotblastas. Hence they would work if they only had 1-2 shots against them. They would be able to manage a save or two. HOWEVER in most games there will definitely be more than one shot, and I'm talking about at least 3-4 shots. Most of those shots are gonna pen against the paper trukk, so your going to be forced to make around 3-4 saves against a single trukk that's going to die no matter what anyway. Luck is not on your side at this point. Sure you can save 1-2 glances or pens, but what about the other two? Then you have just wasted your HQ on something meant for BW's and anything ABOVE AV10. Plus, with trukks, your in assault by Turn 2 anyway, so that 85-170 pt investment in KFF's is useful for a single turn only when you can take a Biker Warboss or two. Just my 2 cents. I will NEVER use KFF's again with trukks because they just aren't worth it as autocannons or even heavy bolters will rip them to shreds by Turn 1 with or without a KFF. If it was a Battlewagon, COMPLETELY different story since you'll probably make about 1-2 saves if that so the KFF is doing it's actual job as insurance, not as a mainline defence hub. Try to playtest it and make your own opinion. Perhaps I just face Tau and IG too much to see the good in it anymore compared to a WB or Ghazzy. I think KFF"s are meant for Kans, Dreads and BW's, not AV10. That's what Buggies are for.

Trick is, you don't have to save the Trukk. All you have to do to get your points worth from a KFF is make your opponent expend more resources per trukk to suppress or destroy them. That KFF can mean the difference between half your Trukks hitting their lines and none of your trukks hitting their lines.

Case in point: Trukks are barreling toward 5 man Purifiers. 8 Psycannon shots and 6 Stormbolter shots from the purifiers target a trukk.

No cover: Trukk has a 37.8% chance of survival (no result of destroyed on the damage table.)
KFF active: Trukk has a 62.3% chance of survival under the same conditions.

That 24.5% difference can have a huge effect. Every time an opponent has to use 2 units to kill a trukk instead of 1 you get more Boyz closer to his lines, and isn't that the whole point of trukks?[/qIuote]

I can see your point there. Forcing the enemy to focus fire enough units on a trukk and make the KFF points efficient and as annoying as possible is a great psychological factor. However your math seems a little high with the 60+ % chance of survival but your probably right. In my experience trukks die with or without the KFF so it makes little difference to me as I almost expect my trukks to die in the first place. I don't count on the KFF as part of my general strategy anymore as I face so many gunline armies that with 9 Hydras downing 6 trukks, the KFF has no chance to begin with. I can see your point against Smurfs tho and Grey Knights are a different story since there's so few models on the board when I face them. I might opt to throw in a KFF at that point if I'm facing only 1...maybe 2 Psyflemen (TL-AC Dreads). Then it's worth saving against those Str 7 hits as there might only be 1-2 of them. However, Tau has killed the KFF for me, especially with the effects of the markerlight system. I'd much rather take a Biker Boss and get krumpin with my HQ rather than save the boyz mobs and their worthless hides!

Valid points Boris, I think it really does just come down to the combination of play style preference and local meta.

My locale has very little markerlight spam, and only moderate gunline presence. In this environment they are amazingly frustrating.

Hey guyz, you kinda got off the main point of the thread, "warboss"

Anywayz, to the OP, i have had great luck with a warboss on bike, with deathstar styled nob bikerz. Very fun, 3 PK's total, 3 BC's, and 1 painboy makes for a very very fun squad!

Today, I took 1200 points of Wazdakka Gutsmek with 10 Warbikaz, KFF Big Mek in a Battlewagon with 19 Shoota Boyz, and 2X12 Slugga Boyz in trukks against Tau. Pitched Battle Annihilation. Deployed Bikes on the left, 'Wagon on the right flanked by the Trukks. Enemy placed Tau Fire Warriors on my left, 3 Crisis Suits on my right, Vehicle with Carbine Warriors. 1 Stealth unit infiltrated on my extreme right, 1 more in the middle.
Turn 1, moved up vehicles as far as they could go. Turboboosted my Bikaz to the right and behind my vehicles. Gutsmek takes out 1 Suit with his Dakka Cannon. Tau took out my Trukks, and Fire Warriors had to run to support the other flank.
Turn 2, charged and killed both Stealth units with my Slugga Boyz from the Trukks. Battlewagon with Deff Rolla Rammed and wrecked his Vehicle, troops emergency disembarked. Boyz couldn't get out, but shoot up Carbine Warriors squad. Bikaz turboboosted again to the far side of the table. Fire Warriors shot and assaulted middle mob, breaking them and making them run.
Tun 3, Battlewagon moved Shoota Boyz to first Fire Warriors. Boyz and Big Mek get out and wipe them out. Warbikaz shoot 1 Crisis suit to deff. Wazdakka breaks off and assaults remaining Carbine Warriors with other Trukk Slugga Boyz.
Turn 4, Big Mek and Boys assault last Fire Warriors, wipe them out. Warbikaz chase down last Crisis Suit and kill it.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:Today, I took 1200 points of Wazdakka Gutsmek with 10 Warbikaz, KFF Big Mek in a Battlewagon with 19 Shoota Boyz, and 2X12 Slugga Boyz in trukks against Tau. Pitched Battle Annihilation. Deployed Bikes on the left, 'Wagon on the right flanked by the Trukks. Enemy placed Tau Fire Warriors on my left, 3 Crisis Suits on my right, Vehicle with Carbine Warriors. 1 Stealth unit infiltrated on my extreme right, 1 more in the middle.
Turn 1, moved up vehicles as far as they could go. Turboboosted my Bikaz to the right and behind my vehicles. Gutsmek takes out 1 Suit with his Dakka Cannon. Tau took out my Trukks, and Fire Warriors had to run to support the other flank.
Turn 2, charged and killed both Stealth units with my Slugga Boyz from the Trukks. Battlewagon with Deff Rolla Rammed and wrecked his Vehicle, troops emergency disembarked. Boyz couldn't get out, but shoot up Carbine Warriors squad. Bikaz turboboosted again to the far side of the table. Fire Warriors shot and assaulted middle mob, breaking them and making them run.
Tun 3, Battlewagon moved Shoota Boyz to first Fire Warriors. Boyz and Big Mek get out and wipe them out. Warbikaz shoot 1 Crisis suit to deff. Wazdakka breaks off and assaults remaining Carbine Warriors with other Trukk Slugga Boyz.
Turn 4, Big Mek and Boys assault last Fire Warriors, wipe them out. Warbikaz chase down last Crisis Suit and kill it.

Great story, although your Tau friend had a very weak list. Only 3 battlesuits? Stealth suits? Fire Warriors with Carbines? When I face Tau I'm looking at about 9-11 Suits (including HQ's) with Missile Pods galore along with a FW squad or 2 in Devilfish transports and small units of Kroot for cover/distraction/sacrifice unit. Did your opponent bother considering a Broadside to face against your Wagon?

I just met him randomly and that is what he had. I don't know why he didn't bring Broadsides. Plus, I'm not sure how many suits he could afford at 1200 points. Another time, I did destroy another Tau player at 1500 points who had some suits, Fire Warriors, and Kroot on my left, 3 Broadsides and drones in the center, and 2 Devilfish loaded with Fire Warriors on my right. I had 8 Nob Bikerz and a Warboss on my left, 6 Killa Kanz, a Def Dread, and a KFF Big Mek in a Trukk with 11 Boyz giving them cover, and 15 Lootas on my right. My Bikes went forward and toward the center wiping everything out in their way, the Lootas wrecked the Devilfish and annihilated the Fire Warriors, while the Kan Wall with 8 Mega Blastas out shot the 3 Broadsides. I did not include this story because it was not really a Speed Freek victory.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:I just met him randomly and that is what he had. I don't know why he didn't bring Broadsides. Plus, I'm not sure how many suits he could afford at 1200 points. Another time, I did destroy another Tau player at 1500 points who had some suits, Fire Warriors, and Kroot on my left, 3 Broadsides and drones in the center, and 2 Devilfish loaded with Fire Warriors on my right. I had 8 Nob Bikerz and a Warboss on my left, 6 Killa Kanz, a Def Dread, and a KFF Big Mek in a Trukk with 11 Boyz giving them cover, and 15 Lootas on my right. My Bikes went forward and toward the center wiping everything out in their way, the Lootas wrecked the Devilfish and annihilated the Fire Warriors, while the Kan Wall with 8 Mega Blastas out shot the 3 Broadsides. I did not include this story because it was not really a Speed Freek victory.

Killa Kans outshooting Broadsides? Everything minus the Kans and Lootas was still Speed Freek-y so bump to your story. Nob Bikers seem powerful enough in units of 3, but 8!? Ouch. Lootas seem necessary in every Ork list, fast or slow.

Yes, my Kanz shot the crap out of those Broadsides. He had 3 twin-linked shots that were nerfed by the Kustom Force Field. Also, my Kanz and Dread had 8 AP2 Mega Blastas.

3 Bikers take a leadership check at LD 7 if 1 of them is removed. 8 Nob Bikers and a Warboss have to take 3 shooting casualties before I start taking leadership checks at LD 9. With wound allocation, that means that they outlast 1 or 2 rounds of shooting until they can assault the other side of the board. Turbo boost and you add a 3+ cover save. Not great initiative, but enough WS, Strength, and Attacks to make up for it.

Lootas can eliminate everything except Monoliths and Land Raiders. Saw a guy this weekend put his mobs in bare Battlewagons for protection. That's how useful they are.

Gotta love Kustom Mega Blastas. Not as cheap as Rokkits, but they give such a cool image- crakklin' beams of coruscating energy lancing out towards the enemy, melting armour and frying flesh to char.