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I was reading some fluff about the Lion the other day and had to read a certain bit a few times to truly grasp it.

LUTHER BEAT THE LION WTF

not only is the Lion a Primarch with all the epicness that entails Luther is not even a Space marine he is just a normal dude with some enhancements how on earth did he beat the Lion in combat

Where were you reading it?

Vermillion wrote:Where were you reading it?

Lexicanum

Lexicanum's summary is missing some important details leading up to Luther striking the mortal blow. For example, it's missing the part where Lion could not bring himself to kill Luther, and essentially gave up.

JamesMclaren123 wrote:

Vermillion wrote:Where were you reading it?

Lexicanum

It's also in the dark angels codex. that's where I read it, and put up a similar thread.

He beat the lion because on top of his great combat abilities, he also had the backing of the 4 chaos gods.

JamesMclaren123 wrote:I was reading some fluff about the Lion the other day and had to read a certain bit a few times to truly grasp it.

LUTHER BEAT THE LION WTF

not only is the Lion a Primarch with all the epicness that entails Luther is not even a Space marine he is just a normal dude with some enhancements how on earth did he beat the Lion in combat

The Lion hesitated in fighting Luther apparently, but beyond that Luther had the backing of all four Chaos Gods.

Judging by the way the DA section of the HH is going, Luther might not have been aware of this fact.

Durza wrote:Judging by the way the DA section of the HH is going, Luther might not have been aware of this fact.

Judging by the way the DA section of the HH is going, the Lion might not of hesitated at all. Since in the series it seems pretty evident that notions such as "empathy" and "loyalty" are lost on the Lion.

So the third one should shed some light on the situation... It's sounding like it'll turn out the same, but with the roles reversed, Luther hesitating and Lion el' trying to kill him.

Way I always read it was the Lion fought Luthor to the point of death and hesitated at the last moment which gave Chaos fuelled Luther a chance to do a near killing blow then they realise they what they did and the rest is well known .

Not really. It's a secret known only to the Dark Angels and the bodiless spirits who paint everything and make armies move around conveniently rectangular battlefields.

Yeah, I think the Luther-Lion battle was originally meant to be a mirror of Horus against the Emperor, but they're moving away from it now.

Vermillion wrote:Way I always read it was the Lion fought Luthor to the point of death and hesitated at the last moment which gave Chaos fuelled Luther a chance to do a near killing blow then they realise they what they did and the rest is well known .

Yes, that is exactly what the story is so far.

Who knows what they'll change it to. Rape of the Dark Angels background seems to be the thing du'jour though.

Not just their background. I'm dreading seeing a new codex in Feb next year only for it to be rendered useless in comparison to a 6th ed SM codex the following summer or something. Again.

DarknessEternal wrote:Lexicanum's summary is missing some important details leading up to Luther striking the mortal blow. For example, it's missing the part where Lion could not bring himself to kill Luther, and essentially gave up.

While this is the story as it used to be, the expansion of the Dark Angels' background via the BL library has thrown some doubt on this.

For example, what we've learned of the Lion's personality makes him hesitating like that extremely unlikely, since that would require some amount of loyalty and/or empathy, whereas the dude is basically a biological robot. And, of course, Luther's entire motivation as stated (bitterness and jealousy) are in doubt, since he did save Caliban and the Lion did betray them.

I suppose it's up to the reader whether they use the codex or the BL novels as their background of choice.

I always loved the Dark Angels, from the first moment I layed my hands on the old DA/BA Codex in the middle of the 90's.

I always pictured the Lion as this noble guy, doing awesome things, returning to be betrayed by some idiot.

After finishing the novels the only response I could muster was "Wow, the Lion is an ***hole...."

I've nnot read the HH books but i plan to, but i don't get how Luther saved the planet

If you're going to read the books you'll find out there. If not,

Right, they were totally supposed to just let it manifest and eat the entire planet's population. Way better alternative. Although the whole scenario is weird, where did sorcerers of such potency come from in the atheistic Imperium?

Given what has been revealed about Caliban, mainly with the dialogue from the Watchers in the Dark, I suspect either they are native to Caliban and knew what they were doing from the outset or have been corrupted humans from either camp.

And I agree that the HH novels have thrown a new light on the Lion, but the last short story involving them actually threw a positive light upon him at least. Don't see how he has thrown a hissy fit because Guilliman hasn't added "please" at the end of his request as many have said though.

They may be tough, but not invincible. The Night Lords primarch (name escapes me at the moment) allowed himself to be killed by an assassin.

Lionel Jonson was a poet. He wrote a poem called Dark Angel. The subject was homosexuality.

It does explain the robes and all that grappling in the cold snow...

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:They may be tough, but not invincible. The Night Lords primarch (name escapes me at the moment) allowed himself to be killed by an assassin.

A Callidus Assassin, who wield C'tan Phase Blades.

A C'tan Phase Blade can cut through pretty much anything.

Void__Dragon wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:They may be tough, but not invincible. The Night Lords primarch (name escapes me at the moment) allowed himself to be killed by an assassin.

A Callidus Assassin, who wield C'tan Phase Blades.

A C'tan Phase Blade can cut through pretty much anything.

Except a C'tan.

I liked that story.

DeffDred wrote:Lionel Jonson was a poet. He wrote a poem called Dark Angel. The subject was homosexuality.

Lionel had this Catholic guilt/self-loathing about being gay, and Dark Angel was one of I think two or three poems he wrote essentially dissing Oscar Wilde as the gay devil.

Void__Dragon wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:They may be tough, but not invincible. The Night Lords primarch (name escapes me at the moment) allowed himself to be killed by an assassin.

A Callidus Assassin, who wield C'tan Phase Blades.

A C'tan Phase Blade can cut through pretty much anything.

Even that would not have been enough. Kurze LET the assassin kill him because it would be an affirmation of his entire philosophy.

Werent the Watchers in the Dark part of the Cabal, therefore Anti Chaos?

The Cabal tried to contact all Legions and the Dark Angels and Johnson would have been the first.

There is a huge part of the tale left to tell, Cypher and Zarahiel will both be heavily involved in the events leading up to the Luthor v Johnson fight and dont forget that Nurgle type Daemon trapped in Caliban.

Omegus wrote:Even that would not have been enough. Kurze LET the assassin kill him because it would be an affirmation of his entire philosophy.

Would the assassin of been able to kill him were he fighting back? Almost definitely not.

But that wasn't really my point, which was being capable of being killed by a C'tan Phase Blade isn't actually a low feat, and not really indicative of a Primarch's might, or their limitations. A C'tan Phase Blade can cut through just about anything short of a C'tan itself.