Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Yarr,

I'm trying to figure out the most durable Paladin loadout for a 10 man squad. Assuming you want the Apothecary and the Warding Stave, this is what I came up with. Each guy is unique so you have 10 "buckets" to put wounds on. I doubled up the Brotherhood Banner and the Apothecary since I figure that's the one model I want to lose the least. All together there are 4 Psycannons, 4 Halberds, 2 Hammers, 2 Swords, 1 Brotherhood Banner and 1 Warding Stave. What do you all think?

1x w/ Narthecium, Brotherhood Banner
1x w/ Psycannon, Nemesis Force Halberd
1x w/ Psycannon, Nemesis Force Halberd - Master crafted
1x w/ Psycannon, Daemon Hammer
1x w/ Psycannon, Nemesis Force Sword
1x w/ Storm Bolter, Nemesis Force Halberd
1x w/ Storm Bolter, Nemesis Force Halberd - Master crafted
1x w/ Storm Bolter, Daemon Hammer
1x w/ Storm Bolter, Nemesis Force Sword
1x w/ Storm Bolter, Warding Stave

Because I’m lazy and don’t what to get my GK codex out, what’s the point cost on that unit?

760 points.

For a Draigowing obv btw

I'd try to stick with Hammers and Halberds as best as you can and just MC some of their ranged weapons. Especially the Psycannons.

Example:
MC Psycannon, MC Hammer
MC Psycannon, MC Halberd
MC Psycannon, Hammer
MC Psycannon, Halberd
Warding Staff
Narthecium, Halberd
Banner, Halberd
SB, MC Hammer
SB, MC Halberd
SB, Halberd

Also, if it's a tournament, you run into a pickle.

You have a printout ready with labelled units matching some sort of marking so you can mark off wounds inflicted in a timely manner?

C'mon, cut the "stuff" it's a rules exploit. You merely get a 0 for sportsmanship.

You don't have a printout?

You get a 0 for sportsmanship and I call the judge over every time you take more than 2 minutes to figure wound allocation out. Also I start writing down your unit descriptions/physical appearance myself. That takes more than 2 minutes, so I start complaining (not to you, to the judge) louder. Did you bring a spare copy for me (and everyone else you play)? Are your guys strictly WYSIWYG? BTW I count my having to track your crap (which is perfectly reasonable) against the 2 minutes.

If you have your stuff organized and ready to play, great, dandy, I've got no reason to complain. However this sort of thing has been going on with Nob Bikers, diversified SW Thunderwolves, etc, for quite some time. I've faced that stuff many times. Zero of those times have I faced it when the opponent actually had their crap organized.

Basically, it's annoying. If you're going to annoy your opponent, better have your homework done.

I'm not sure if you're saying paladin wound allocation wargear diversification is a rules exploit, Ivan, but it is not. I'd even say the paladin codex entry is specifically designed to allow for and encourage wound allocation. It's not bad sportmanship at all: it's a method by which GW provides certain units with extra durability similar to FNP or an invulnerability save or a cover bonus etc.

Your other points I completely agree with. The paladin player needs to sort their crap out to keep the game flowing. As an aside, I use the halberds with tassles to denote the mastercrafted halberds for WYSIWYG.


Mosg, that's the loadout I use and I researched various forums and PM'd experienced paladin players for a couple of months before I settled on it. Only difference is I have 2 units of 10 Paladins and one of these has an apoth and the other has a stave (both have banners on standard paladins). After playing with them though, I am considering replacing the apoth with another stave. My reasoning for this is that by the time the apoth makes his points back in such a large unit, the game should have been won or lost already, and additionally the warding stave is just too good to miss out on. Funnily enough the cost of the apoth is more efficient when you have a smaller squad size as he gets used that much more often on each individual model.

Finally, if you have the points consider mastercrafting the hammers, as when you need them you REALLY need them.

Like I said, it's technically legal. Does GW encourage it? I remember when 5th came out, don't get me started on that debate. One could argue they intended it, or they didn't. Some codexes point values imply they did, some they didn't. I didn't go there with my opinion. Just expressed an opinion that I've heard expressed among many that I've played with at multiple places.

Better spreadsheet it. And set up your spreadsheet keeping in mind that your opponent may not appreciate having to read a spreadsheet about YOUR army while having to keep track of THEIR army. In tournaments expect some 0s either way.

To the OP. I would suggest not giving your apoth the banner. Makes him a huge sniper target and when he dies you've just lost a model worth more then 150 pts as well as both squad buffs you purchased. I also agree with Sethorly that you should mastercraft the hammers. Nothing sucks more then assaulting a vehicle/MC/IC and the guy who is suppose to "deal with the problem" ends up missing.

What models can specifically snipe out the Apothecary/Banner? Farseers, Rune Priests, assassins... That pretty much it?

Good point on the master crafted hammers. Though, why all halberds/hammers and no swords? The +1 not worth it compared to the initiative boost or the vehicle smacking power?

Or, Ivan, you can just put a die or some other marker on each base. That, or there are numerous ways to easily and quickly keep track of which models are wounded. You don't need a spreadsheet, and this guy does not deserve a 0 for anything. In fact, a unit like this isn't even competetive really, so it isn't like he is going to win via cheese.

Why are you so butthurt about it anyway? Did wound allocating Paladins kill your parents and leave you orphaned? From the way you're talking you seem pretty offended.

Also, I think you misunderstand the meaning of 'sportsmanship.' Writing a list that causes you and your opponent to keep track of something difficult is not poor sportsmanship. Being a jerk, trying to cheat, throwing fits, smack talk, and stuff like that is poor sportsmanship. If you are giving people 0s for building a powerful list (which again the above really isn't), even if they were friendly, fair, and tried their best to have a good game, then you are just spiteful.

Ivan wrote:Also, if it's a tournament, you run into a pickle.

You have a printout ready with labelled units matching some sort of marking so you can mark off wounds inflicted in a timely manner?

C'mon, cut the "stuff" it's a rules exploit. You merely get a 0 for sportsmanship.

You don't have a printout?

You get a 0 for sportsmanship and I call the judge over every time you take more than 2 minutes to figure wound allocation out. Also I start writing down your unit descriptions/physical appearance myself. That takes more than 2 minutes, so I start complaining (not to you, to the judge) louder. Did you bring a spare copy for me (and everyone else you play)? Are your guys strictly WYSIWYG? BTW I count my having to track your crap (which is perfectly reasonable) against the 2 minutes.

If you have your stuff organized and ready to play, great, dandy, I've got no reason to complain. However this sort of thing has been going on with Nob Bikers, diversified SW Thunderwolves, etc, for quite some time. I've faced that stuff many times. Zero of those times have I faced it when the opponent actually had their crap organized.

Basically, it's annoying. If you're going to annoy your opponent, better have your homework done.

Cause it's so hard to allocate wounds to ten models. If you're that clueless you wouldn't be doing these shenanigans in the first place. I've run Draigowing. I can allocate and handle wounds easily. Heck, I do it faster than most people handle their 7 nugs, 2 special weapons, and a sarge wound allocation.

Stop crying about so called rules exploitation.

Paldin Wound allocation in touranment play is stupidly easy: ID each model, and then draw one stroke for a wound, and an X for a dead model.

It's about as much a rules exploit as having a 2+ armor save it.

In other words, it's not.

Question: what do you do with your 10 Paladins? Do you DS all of them? Comabt squad them and put half in a Redeemer?

Footslog or Stormravens.

Just a but of info the banner takes the place of a force weapon. You can't have a halberd and banner. Also it's not fully worth the points because 9/10 times you won't need the banner so the lost of the power weapon attacks is to much of a loss.

cgage00 wrote:Just a but of info the banner takes the place of a force weapon. You can't have a halberd and banner. Also it's not fully worth the points because 9/10 times you won't need the banner so the lost of the power weapon attacks is to much of a loss.

as it gives everyone in the unit +1 attacks it is usually worth it if your unit is over 4 models
also it bypasses shadows of the warp and other abilities that force you to roll 3d6 for the test.

The banner still isn't the last thing you'd want to lose though.

As taking the banner loses two power weapon attacks, you have to look at the net number of attacks when deciding when to lose the banner.

3 paladins with banner = 6 FW + 3 basica attacks
3 Palatidns without banner = 6 FW attacks

2 With = 3 FW, 3 Basic
2 without = 4 FW

once you figure that usually either halbreds or hammers will add even more utility to your attacks... I'm never shy about killing the banner when around 3-4 models.

What does your 1850/2k list look like Polonius?

Draigo
Libby w/ 2 skulls, might, shrouding, santuary
2x 10 pallies w/psybolt: sword, halbred x2, hammer, banner, staff, cannon/hammer, cannon/halbred, cannon/sword, MC cannon/sword

I love Paladin deathstars, but I have to say, drop the Apothecary. Paladins are pretty much invulnerable to small arms as it is, most of what you'll be worried about, and most of what they'll be targeted by, is the kind of weaponry that would ignore FNP anyway.

Likewise, you need Draigo to run with them to soak up weaponry that would instantly fry a Paladin.

Once a unit exceeds 5 Paladins, I feel that a Banner is definitely a great buy. You get a considerable bonus in the amount of attacks you make, and your force weapons go off automatically, which is incredibly useful against armies like Tyranids and Eldar. It's also worth noting that just because the model wielding the banner loses his NFW doesn't make him completely useless. He'll be largely as effective against lightly armoured Hordes as his NFW toting peers, and even against bigger and scarier things, Hammerhand still makes him hit hard.

I'm also a fan of psybolt ammo. But only if you're running enough stormbolters to actually justify the cost. A maxed out unit definitely justifies the cost.