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Scenario:
Turn 7, so it's over after this round. I go first, playing guard vs marines. we have obliterated each other and sit with 1 unit each. i have a full vet squad with 3 plasmaguns. opponent got 3 assault marines with lightning claws. Marines are 8 Inches away, and not in cover.

My shooting phace: Do I use only plasmaguns, and let the rest of the guard stand still and watch? Seems weird to let most of the unit NOT shoot, as it makes it more likely to kill the opponent.
3 vets, rapid fireing plasmas = 4 hits, kills on 2+, so would expect 3 Wounds that can't be saved. If I shoot any Lasgun at them, I run the risk of wounding them so opponent can wound-allocate. Average : 13 las shots hitting with 8, wounding 3. Together with the plasma hits, that would be 3 las wounds and 3 plasma wounds. Opponent could then let 1 marine take 2 plasma, 1 marine take 1 plasma and 1 las, then the last marine would take 2 las, allowing him saves on the last modell. 1 marine could win the following assault and win the game, while if I only shoot plasma i would remove all of them.

Now, what I wonder is...Have i misunderstood the wound allocation system, or is there something else i've missed? Seems weird that when i want to kill my opponent, I shouldn't shoot at him with 70% of my squad.

Do all three marines have lightning claws or only one? Wound allocation only comes into play if the models differ from one another.

let's say they all are equipped the same.... wouldn't they be allowed to allocated? Seeing as some wounds are savable and some not, i thought owner was allowed to say what models took what wound.

If they're all the same, you don't allocate wounds. You just take saves, and remove a model for every wound failed.

Wound allocation only happens for "complex" units. However, most units *are* complex.

Lets say that's two assault marines and a sergeant with a lightning claw. If you shoot the lasguns, and end up getting say 3 plasma wounds and 2 lasgun wounds, he could put 3 plasma wounds and one lasgun wound on the two "normal" models, and one lasgun wound on the sergeant, giving the sergeant a 2/3 chance to survive. If you had not fired the lasguns and got 3 plasma wounds, they all three would die.

The key to remember is that while you allocate the wounds by model, you take saves by groups of similar models.

Right. In his example, if the SM player gets to allocate, he can allocate the 3 plasma shots to 2 marines, and have the last marine save against the flashlights. Whereas if he only fired (and hit with) the plasmas, all 3 marines would die.

Firstly Assault Marines can't have 3x LIghtning Claws; so lets say these are Vanguard Veterans instead ^^

After that, they would have the same loadout and would all be the same unless there is a SGT still alive. Who then may still have the same exact wargear and statline(no codex atm)

So if they're all equipped alike; they're all gonna die.

If the sgt has melta bombs or something than there are 2 diferent equipped groups and he may allocate SGT / other 2

willydstyle wrote:
Wound allocation only happens for "complex" units. However, most units *are* complex.

Not quite. You always allocate wounds. You roll saves for like models as a group.

rigeld2 wrote:Right. In his example, if the SM player gets to allocate, he can allocate the 3 plasma shots to 2 marines, and have the last marine save against the flashlights. Whereas if he only fired (and hit with) the plasmas, all 3 marines would die.

NO

In his example, there are 3 identical marines. While you initially can allocate wounds, you then GROUP WOUNDS by identically equipped models - meaning you have 3 plasma wounds and X lasguns on a 3 model group, meaning 3 marines automatically die

nosferatu1001 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:Right. In his example, if the SM player gets to allocate, he can allocate the 3 plasma shots to 2 marines, and have the last marine save against the flashlights. Whereas if he only fired (and hit with) the plasmas, all 3 marines would die.

NO

In his example, there are 3 identical marines. While you initially can allocate wounds, you then GROUP WOUNDS by identically equipped models - meaning you have 3 plasma wounds and X lasguns on a 3 model group, meaning 3 marines automatically die

Wait, I think I have something wrong here; it was explained to me that if you have 3 models and 3 wounds, EACH model must take a wound so that you don't just pile the wounds up on individual models ((ie. what hive guards used to be for)). Am I missing something here? :S

I realize that it's just semantics at this point, but if you look through the shooting section, the basic rules go straight from "roll to wound" to "take saving throws." The rules for wound allocation is in its own section called "complex units."

Therefor, if it's not a complex unit (a unit with models with different stats or wargear) then you just skip wound allocation entirely.

However, the other posters are correct that in the case of a complex unit you do roll the saves for all members of a "group" together, after the wounds have been allocated to individual models. This just never actually happens if the unit is not complex.

Dracheous wrote:
Wait, I think I have something wrong here; it was explained to me that if you have 3 models and 3 wounds, EACH model must take a wound so that you don't just pile the wounds up on individual models ((ie. what hive guards used to be for)). Am I missing something here? :S

No worries, I'll break it down for you. This is probably one of the most annoying things to understand, but once you get it, it's easy.

Take a 5-man combat squad that gets shot up by the IG squad. Here is the combat squad:

Sarge w/ PF
Marine w/ Flamer
3 Bolter marines


The squad takes 4 plasmagun wounds and 4 lasgun wounds. Here would be a good way to allocate the wounds:

Sarge - 1 lasgun
Marine w/ Flamer - 1 lasgun wound
Bolter marines - 3 plasma wound and then put the last plasma gun and 2 lasgun wounds on them after everyone has already been allocated a wound.

You then roll by identical models.

Sarge rolls one armor save
Flamer rolls one armor save
3 Marines dies due to plasma and the last plasma and 2 lasgun wounds don't do a thing.

So out of 8 wounds (4 of them from plasmaguns) there is a pretty good chance that only 3 marines will die. You would have done more damage if only the plasmaguns were fired (and maybe one or two lasguns, but then you risk cause too many wounds).


If it were say, 5 bolter marines, then 4 would die from plasma and you'd have to take another 4 armor saves. Good chance that the entire combat squad gets wiped out. It is to your advantage to equip models differently to take advantage of allocation. Especially on multi-wound models like Nobz or Paladins.

So, essentially, he allocates the plasma hits to two of the modesl, but since they all save as a group, 3 models have to die. Correct? (referencing the OP)

rigeld2 wrote:So, essentially, he allocates the plasma hits to two of the modesl, but since they all save as a group, 3 models have to die. Correct? (referencing the OP)

Yup.

Or no, because as was pointed out, you don't allocate wounds if all of the models are the same. You have three plasma wounds, so three models die.

The end result is the same, but you save time since you're not faffing about allocating wounds for no practical reason.

You gotta love how in 5th edition firing more weapons at a squad can reduce your killing potential. I run into a similar problem on occasion when shooting fireknife suits at small marine squads. I typically only fire the missile pods if the squad is all the same, or there are more of them than I can expect to hit with. For example I will go full bore when shooting a squad at 10 strong, the opponent can only cheese plasma wounds by taking out important models, and if I have done 11 wounds to a tactical squad I'm going to be killing a decent chunk of the squad anyhow. And on the flip side I tend to hold the missiles when shooting at a unit of 2 or three different models.

Yet youve got to love that, in 4th edition, it was always the special / heavy / sarge trooper that got killed last. Torrent of fire wasa pathetic sop to trying to kill these guys.

Yes, I prefer the odd situation of firing *only* the powerful guns sometimes rather than the important guys always dying last, and moving your rhino *just so* to only be able to kill the single specific model.

Asking my opponent to allocate a wound from the old Torrent of Fire rule got me poor sportsmanship scores a few times too, as the players in the tournaments I went to generally hadn't even *heard* of the rule.

Ah yes, range and LOS sniping - horrible, horrible mechanic.

For the OP: If all three of the models are outfitted the same it doesn't matter if you shoot all the guns. They cannot allocate wounds unless they're equipped differently.

IE: My Crisis squad (all geared as fireknives) takes 2 wounds, I loose two wounds on one Crisis suit (and therefor a Crisis suit) because I cannot put one wound one the first one, and one on the second.

thanks for all the reply:-) It makes sense now. Cheers