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Guys, first post on the site. Have been out of 40k for about a year (while I've been getting the impetus up to build a 100 man army). Have had this army in mind for a long while. My previous army was a Dakka Predator list. The intention is to use Creed and Kell to give orders to the Heavy Weapons Teams, the 5 infantry squads to normally squad up, with the Ministorum Priest and Commissar, where they could potentially Scout and Outflank thanks to Creed. The Sentinels to come on as reserves in the flanks, shooting tanks' rear and side armour. The veterans to chase down tanks.

Thoughts welcome...

Company Command Squad
+Lord Castellan Creed
+Colour Sergerant Kell

Ministorum Priest
+Eviscerator

Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad
+2 Grenade Launchers

Infantry Squad
+Commissar +Power Sword

Infantry Squad

Infantry Squad

Infantry Squad

Infantry Squad

Heavy Weapons Team
+3 Missile Launchers

Heavy Weapons Team
+3 Missile Launchers

Heavy Weapons Team
+3 Missile Launchers

Heavy Weapons Team
+3 Missile Launchers

Heavy Weapons Team
+3 Missile Launchers

Veteran Squad
+3 Melta Guns
+Chimera

Veteran Squad
+3 Melta Guns
+Chimera

Sentinel
+Autocannon

Sentinel
+Autocannon

Sentinel
+Autocannon

The major issue is gonna be painting 120 men...!

This looks like it could be fun to play and is so different from alot of current Guard builds that it just may catch an opponent at unawares.

If I were to tweak it a bit I would drop 1 Milssile HWS and get the CCS a Chimera and as many power weapons as you can afford with the leftover points for you sargents. The CCS is awfully expensive to be hanging out in the breeze without a bit of armor for protection, and the power weapons will help the outflanking platoon pack more of a punch in combat.

If I did the math correctly dropping a HWS will buy you a Chimera, 3 power weapons, and 5 leftover points for maybe another GL in the PCS or melta bombs on 1 of your sargents.
Or drop 1 HWS and 1 Infantry squad and the the CCS a Chimera, PCS a Chimera and 3 PW for your sargents.

Just a couple ideas that may help keep you officers alive a bit longer.

Thanks

I have considered dropping a HWS as you say. The chimera for the Company Command wouldn't work as you can't issue orders from a tank. I had considered giving them camo cloaks but didn't fancy modelling the cloaks! I had deliberately avoided tooling up the command squads as I wanted to keep it basic, and get more bodies on the board.

As to Creed, I have been umming and arring over him. I think his orders just make the army so much more valuable - allowing me to make 4 HWSs twin linked is pretty tasty, at least in my head when I'm imagining it. I think he makes the army viable, otherwise they're just a bunch of normal dudes with BS3 and torchlights!! The army really is all about the orders really, which fluff-wise is accurate as well.

You can issue orders FROM a tank, not INTO a tank. Thats the Command Vehicle rule I believe. Very nice indeed!

The way you're configured Creed is important to the list and could be very useful even though he breaks the bank.

Lastly, don't count out those normal dudes with torchlights....with FRFSRF 40 guardsmen can put out a decent amout of fire, even if it is only S3. Quantity indeed has a qulity of its own.

Good hunting with the list mate. Let us know how it works out for you.

From the orders section:

"An officer may attempt to issue orders provided that he is not locked in an assault, embarked in a transport vehicle, falling back or has gone to ground."

Is there another rule I am missing? Where is this "Command Vehicle rule"? I would dearly love to hide them in a Chimera!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Doh! Found it! 1 more Chimera please!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, if i drop 1 HWS which gives me 90 points, buy 1 Chimera for 55 (might use a Salamander model), leaving me 35 left.

First thought would be to swap 1 missile launcher for a lascannon in each remaning HWS, along with 3 grenade launchers in the infantry squads.

Another thought would be to get an Astropath so I am more in control of the reserves.

Spot on. The Astropath would essentially let you move onto the side of your choice, which is invaluable. I would still somehow try and find points for some power weapons for the sargents. It is heartbreaking to outflank, come in right behind your enemy and get the charge off only to have him make all his armor saves.

Just a thought on the HWSs...

What about instead of 3 missile launchers, 1 missile launcher, 1 autocannon, and 1 lascannon. More punchy, more shots, same points. Would be as good if not better at killing troops, although you're losing 1 AP3 shot in exchange for 2 AP4 ones. Better at killing tanks and AP2 troops. And better at killing light vehicles with the extra shot.

What do you think?

Im not sure if you mean 1 Lascannon, 1 Missile Launcher, and 1 Autocannon in each HWS or have squads each of LCs, MLs, and ACs?

It is generally not a good idea to mix weapons within the squad. Having 3 weapons in each squad helps get its particular job done.

I do like the idea of swapping out a ML squad or 2 for ACs, LCs, or both. Your melta vets are going to be your best bet for killing AV14 stuff, so you might want 2 ML squads and 2 AC squads and leave off the LCs altogether. Thats a good amount of firepower to throw downrange versus hordes and also with the ability to pop light vehicles.

Diarmid wrote:Im not sure if you mean 1 Lascannon, 1 Missile Launcher, and 1 Autocannon in each HWS or have squads each of LCs, MLs, and ACs?

It is generally not a good idea to mix weapons within the squad. Having 3 weapons in each squad helps get its particular job done.

I do like the idea of swapping out a ML squad or 2 for ACs, LCs, or both. Your melta vets are going to be your best bet for killing AV14 stuff, so you might want 2 ML squads and 2 AC squads and leave off the LCs altogether. Thats a good amount of firepower to throw downrange versus hordes and also with the ability to pop light vehicles.

On HWS you can mix squads to some extent. Use the missiles to mix with either the las or autocannon. Lascannons and autocannons don't mix. So 2 las and 1 missile still works pretty well, is slightly cheaper and allows some wound allocation. 1st wound on ML/2nd wound on LS. You then have all three still shooting after 2 wounds and then take the 3rd wound on the ML again to keep the more expensive las alive ...

Ok, after much postulating and reading the comments on here I have changed the list. I dropped an infantry squad to give the other 4 krak grenades and a grenade launcher. I still think the mixed heavy weapons squads of autocannon, missile launcher and lascannon are at least no worse than having them seperate - I sort of half did the mathammer whilst driving and they definitely kill marines better, which is my normal benchmark.

Anyway, here's the list. Most times I figure I'll mob up the infantry squads and outflank them using Creed's rule.


Company Command Squad 50
Castellan Creed 90
Kell 85
Astropath 30
Chimera 55 310

Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad 30
2 Grenade Launchers 10 40

Infantry Squad 50 100
Grenade Launcher 5
Krak Grenades 10
Commissar 35

Infantry Squad 50 65
Grenade Launcher 5
Krak Grenades 10

Infantry Squad 50 65
Grenade Launcher 5
Krak Grenades 10

Infantry Squad 50 65
Grenade Launcher 5
Krak Grenades 10

Heavy Weapons Squad 60 90
Missile Launcher 10
Autocannon 5
Lascannon 15

Heavy Weapons Squad 60 90
Missile Launcher 10
Autocannon 5
Lascannon 15

Heavy Weapons Squad 60 90
Missile Launcher 10
Autocannon 5
Lascannon 15

Heavy Weapons Squad 60 90
Missile Launcher 10
Autocannon 5
Lascannon 15

Veteran Squad 70 155
3 Melta Guns 30
Chimera 55

Veteran Squad 70 155
3 Melta Guns 30
Chimera 55

Ministorum Priest 45 60
Eviscerator 15

Senitnel 35 40
Autocannon 5

Sentinel 35 35

Sentinel 35 50
Lascannon 15


If you're interested here is the painting blog http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/400927.page

Read the forum rules please...

When you post your lists for dissection here the total points value and costs of the individual units are fine to list, but please refrain from listing the cost of each and every upgrade.

Missile Launchers are not equal to Autocannons. These are the facts behind it... BS 3. One shot is a 50% chance to hit, two shots give you a 75% chance to hit once. Str 8 Krak vs Str 7 means your shooting at the same targets, AV 12 or less. Blast Marker with units spread out 2" apart means your lucky to hit 3-4 troops (if you don't scatter) and Str 4 means your lucky to wound 1-2. AC will wound if it hits, so your looking 1-2, but minus the extra scatter roll added into the ML. Armor saves are a wash as power armor gets it's save against everything but the Krak. ML is 5pts more expensive, giving the AC the win.

It really comes down to the fact that your heavy weapons should either be ACs or LCs. As ACs have the Str to deal with AV 12 or less, walkers, MCs, and troops. While the LC deals with AV 12+.

Since Marines are the benchmark in 40k, you need to look at your weapons and figure out how well they will work against Marines and their 3+ power armor. Then you have to figure out the BS of your troops and choose the best weapons for them.
BS 4? Single shot heavy weapons, melta guns, plasma guns.
Vets and CCSs are the units you buy LCs for (if you can afford them), melta guns and plasma guns, because they have a better chance to hit with these valuable weapons.
BS 3? Multi-shot heavy weapons, melta guns, flamers. Multi-shot HWs give you a better chance to hit with at least 1 shot, melta guns still make walkers/vehicles/MCs/Terminators/power armor scared and flamers don't care about BS as they are a template weapon.

I really like Kell and Creed, but I have been swayed by the Lord Commissar with a Camo Cloak for giving Ld 10 with his 'Aura of Discipline' to HWSs. This will help keep the squads around when your opponent shoots at them as they now have a higher Ld for their morale checks. If they are within 12" of Kell they only get a re-roll. If your feeling risky, you can join him to a squad and give them Stubborn and a +3 cover save due to the camo cloak (if they are in cover, and all HWSs should be in cover). You just have to hope you don't fail any Ld checks because he /will/ kill a heavy weapon to make a re-roll.

Do not waste special weapon slots.

A properly kitted out blob is thus... At least 1 Commissar. Power weapons for the Commissars and Sergeants. Melta gun in every special weapon slot. Melta bombs for every sergeant.

Krak grenades are only Str 6... good luck against that Dread rolling three 6s in a row.

Priests are ICs, so can be targeted in CC. They have to follow the IC rules concerning CC, so they move first, into base to base before your other troops move in. They have a crappy save, 1 wound, and 3 in all of their important stats. If you use them, you can attempt to keep them at the back of the mob to keep them out of combat or you accept the fact your paying 60pts for their ability for possibly one fight. I normally feel those 60pts could be better spent elsewhere, specially when you look at a AC HWS at 75pts.

Scout Sentinals are easy to take down and have BS 3. Do not waste more points on them then you have to, or pay more points to keep them survivable (Camo Netting and smoke). I still feel the only real weapon choice is the AC.

Good luck, hope this helps.

(sorry about the points values)

Hmm...

Good points! I really like the priest idea but had been worrying about him surviving. Will re-look at how to spend the 60 points. Could potentially upgrade my grenade launchers for melta guns/plasma guns.

Will keep Creed and Kell to start with, as the models are beautiful. And being able to give 4 squads "fire on my target" within a 48" diameter seems quite tasty.

On the krak grenades point I figured 40 krak grenades was better than 4 melta bombs for most vehicles except land raiders and dreadnoughts. And I have the vet squads for killing those...

I personally am not convinced by the power weapons in the blobs - reason being to kill a marine I need 4s to hit, and 5s to wound. Assuming commissar and 4 sergeants make it in to combat that's 12 attacks, 6 hits, 1 or 2 wounds. I'd rather take more men and/or get a re-roll to hit (from the priest) and just roll so many dice that marines are gonna fail some saves. 40 guardsmen (inc 4 sergeants) get 84 attacks hitting on 4s is 42 hits, plus another 21 with the rerolls. 63 hits wounding on 5s is 10-11 wounds, they will fail a third so 3-4.

Wow, guardsmen suck!

I think where this "blob" will excel is coming on at the back of the board and toasting tanks. 4 grenade launchers, followed up by 40 krak grenades and an eviscerator. They're so big I can take out 3 tanks in 1 go. Alternatively a devastator squad or similar sitting at the back of the board. I then have a bunch of troops in my opponents deployment zone which, even though they're only guardsmen, is surely going to distract him...

Yeah, I love Creed and use him in any list but a pure Mech list where Orders don't matter. I am still a fan of Kell, but he sure is expensive!

Your right on the Krak grenades, but here is the flaw in your logic... there are walkers that /want/ to be in CC with your blob. You have never faced a Furioso Dread with cheater claws, have you? There is also the tactic by clever players where they throw a Deff Dread or a Dread or something along that line and get it in CC with your squad. The Dreads as vehicles can break combat whenever they want, but you can't. You can't hurt them so they have effectivily 'tarpitted' your blob with a cheaper unit that you can't hurt or have a incredibly hard time hurting... unless you have Melta bombs. They really are your only chance, and at 5pts a pop there is no real reason to not have them.

Your right on the Power weapons too, but the power weapons do not give armor saves. All your other attacks give armor saves...and FNP if your fighting Plague Marines or Death Company. It is possible your 40 man list doesn't kill a single guy. You also need to remember that Creed has a special Order... 'For Cadia!' which gives your blob Fearless and Furious Charge for the Charge...combined with Power weapons makes it alot easier to really do some damage and then mop up the following CC phases.

I have made a Outflank list with Al'Rahim and Creed that was 3 Platoons, outflanking 2 of them and using the 3rd as a anchor with HWSs. It can be pretty brutal but needs higher points to run properly.

Ok, gonna re-design it a bit then. Will report back later!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a question - if a squad has Scout does it's dedicated transport also have Scout? I have a sneaking suspicion the answer is no, but if not taking Al'Rahim instead of Kell, and outflanking with both the infantry platoon and the Company Command, might work... I would then need another Platoon Command for the Heavy Weapons Squads. I could even drop the Command Chimera and give them Camo cloaks, which should give me enough points for the second Platoon Command. Hmm...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Right, what about this then?


Company Command Squad
Castellan Creed
4 Plasma Guns
Astropath


Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad
Al'Rahim

Infantry Squad
Krak Grenades
Melta Bombs
Commissar
Power Sword

Infantry Squad
Krak Grenades
Melta Bombs

Infantry Squad
Krak Grenades
Melta Bombs

Infantry Squad
Krak Grenades
Melta Bombs

Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command


Heavy Weapons Squad
Autocannons

Heavy Weapons Squad
Autocannons

Heavy Weapons Squad
Lascannons

Heavy Weapons Squad
Lascannons

Veteran Squad
3 Melta Guns
Chimera

Veteran Squad
3 Melta Guns
Chimera

Ministorum Priest

Senitnel
Autocannon

Sentinel
Autocannon

Sentinel
Autocannon

The only other thought would be to drop the priest for another Company Command Squad so I can issue "Fire on my target" orders on the Lascannon squads.

This does of course mean I've wasted £20 on a basilisk (for the Command Chimera) and will need to buy another HWS to replace the 3 missile teams I've already built. And no Kell (

Is it worth paying 50 points on a company command squad to make 6 BS3 lascannons twin linked, 50% of the time (LD 7)?

Having spent those points, and also having a useless platoon command squad, is it better to swap out a veteran squad with chimera and 3 melta guns and instead take a lascannon and 3 plasma guns on the company command squad (BS4) and 4 flamers, a plasma pistol, melta bombs and a chimera for the platoon command?

I’m basically losing 10 men to make 10 other men effective.

Is the lascannon, plasma guns and flamers more effective than the melta guns?

What role would the flamers vs veterans play? I already have a lot of tank killy stuff, especially if I outflank with Al-Rahem and 40 guys with melta bombs and krak grenades, not to mention Creed and his 4 mates with plasma guns. 3 Sentinels with Autocannons shooting rear and side armour, and 6 twin linked lascannons (ish).

Have I got enough troop killy stuff?

Bit concerned about what’s on the table turn 1 – 4 heavy weapons squads, 2 veterans squads and 2 useless command squads…