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Just trying to know if I'm being picky or if others think the same thing.

I just received a bunch of models I bought from someone on this forum.
The seller told me the models were primed black but after looking at the models I just received, it turns out they were painted, than primed(badly) again to hide the paint.

I feel like it's something the seller should tell to the buyer.
Priming a badly painted model to be able to sell it as primed isn't the same thing as selling a primed model imo.
With 2 layers of primer and one(or more layers of paint), the model might start to lose some of the smaller details.

What do you all think?

Simple Green or rubbing alcohol and a toothbrush will solve the whole problem.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Simple Green or rubbing alcohol and a toothbrush will solve the whole problem.

Yeah, but maybe I'm buying bare/primed stuff because I don't wanna have to strip models?
Or I would not bother to look for unpainted models.

I think it's a bit duplicitous. It substantially changes the amount of time you're going to probably have to put in to the models which most people definitely factor into the price they agree to.

Actually I agree with Gorrath here; yes it's a simply solution (personally I use super clean) to fix, but models are not as indicated.

It really depends on the model if I'd be upset or not; if this were a tank, then no; but more expensive infantry models than yes. Because often paying premium for the more decorative infantry models, and if its hidden under gobs of paint you're loosing bang for buck.

Dracheous wrote:Actually I agree with Gorrath here; yes it's a simply solution (personally I use super clean) to fix, but models are not as indicated.

It really depends on the model if I'd be upset or not; if this were a tank, then no; but more expensive infantry models than yes. Because often paying premium for the more decorative infantry models, and if its hidden under gobs of paint you're loosing bang for buck.

This is the list of models:

-15 Berzerkers
-7 Raptors
-15 primed black CSM
-3 Chaos Bikers

The price was really good but well, I don't think you can hide facts by listing you stuff for a good price.
If I had known before buying, I wouldn't have buy them even for half the price they were.
It's simple, I don't want painted models, I would just leave them in a box and try to sell them back.

I can return the models no problem, so I'm not gonna be stuck with them.
Just wanted to know if it's something sellers should write in their threads or if I'm just a really picky customer.

I asked the seller to pay for the shipping to return the items but he told me he won't and he'll call the police if I don't give him a tracking number by tomorrow.
I'm being screwed but he wants to call the police? Cool!

Good thing I asked him to ship first before sending the payment because he hadn't any references or I don't think I would have gotten my money back easily:(

I would think even details such as this should be a mandatory part of every trade. It's reasonable to expect an item to be as close to the description as possible, no?

Best case scenario, the seller didnt know they had the extra layers. Worst case, he did know and didnt care.

The police threat is a hollow one, there are cases of bad traders that have made hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, in fraudulent trades and the local police departments do nothing. Anytime someone goes straight to a threat of the police it seems suspicious in my experience, like a sort of bullying move to pressure you into doing what they want. As long as you are communicating and trying to resolve the issue, the authorities could care less over low values trades like this.

Whether he did so knowingly or not- the miniatures he sent you were not as advertised or claimed. The responsibility was his, now hes trying to screw you out of shipping costs for his error? If he wont pay for return shipping, in the past Ive seen other traders take a mini or two to cover the cost of the return shipping. So if theres any figs in the batch you can use maybe you can come to an agreement that way.

Id suggest running this guys name through the bartertown reference list, theres a chance that if hes tried to pull this before his name could be there with a negative reference. Sadly, bad traders will often shuffle accounts on various forums to continue thier antics. http://www.bartertown.com/trading/ref_view.php

Mistress of minis wrote:Best case scenario, the seller didnt know they had the extra layers. Worst case, he did know and didnt care.

He told me today he did the primer himself...to save people the hassle of doing it...

Mistress of minis wrote:
The police threat is a hollow one, there are cases of bad traders that have made hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, in fraudulent trades and the local police departments do nothing. Anytime someone goes straight to a threat of the police it seems suspicious in my experience, like a sort of bullying move to pressure you into doing what they want. As long as you are communicating and trying to resolve the issue, the authorities could care less over low values trades like this.

Whether he did so knowingly or not- the miniatures he sent you were not as advertised or claimed. The responsibility was his, now hes trying to screw you out of shipping costs for his error? If he wont pay for return shipping, in the past Ive seen other traders take a mini or two to cover the cost of the return shipping. So if theres any figs in the batch you can use maybe you can come to an agreement that way.

Well, I'm gonna ship his stuff back to him tomorrow and pay the shipping myself. I'll pay the damn 10$ just to be done with this but I'll probably do a bad trader report. I told I didn't want to give him bad references and that we could solve this ourselves by PMs but seems like he prefer to make police threats and get bad references to save the 10.00$.

If he misled you, name and shame. He can come here and defend himself if he likes.

Howard A Treesong wrote:If he misled you, name and shame. He can come here and defend himself if he likes.

That's not always fair either, its he said/she said.


We're talking about paint here, not physical damage to the model. Yes, you get some extra work in cleaning them up, yes its a pisser that you paid for A but got B. Yes, this is annoying.

But let's come back down to earth here, or at least a low altitude cruising level of some sort. Flyin' off the handle w/ police threats etc will get you no where; ESPECIALLY in Canada dude. The police service will with out a word of a lie tell you straight up that your $50-100 loss is sad, but not worth the $1000's they'd spend in man hours to bother with it. Make the complaint if you want, then it IS on file and after so many complaints the ticker tape of fruad starts adding up to make it worth the Police's while to investigate.


As for the having a gripe with spending $10 to ship these models back, again dude, chill. For one, you can ship COD with Canada Post and pay $2-3 in insurance which would cover $4-500. SO if it gets lost you stand to MAKE money; the insurance paid up front just makes it easier for you should the other guy claim he never got it. CP doesn't ALWAYS show when COD have been posted.


$10 = MUCH more than a 4 liter bottle of super clean, which would have those models bare in only 2-3 hours really. So you COULD invest the $10 in 2-3 hours of work and take advantage of the deal at the end of the day over buying new models.


As I said, it bothers me when sellers do this, but really all I can do is cut my losses and remember not to purchase from THAT guy/gal again. Where'd I'd get upset for demanding money back is if the physical state of the model is SO ruined that scratch building or purchasing new parts to replace damaged assembly is required.

He definately should have told you the real condition they are in. Still, just stick them in a bucket of superclean. It is probably easier and cheaper than sending them back to him.

Dracheous wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:If he misled you, name and shame. He can come here and defend himself if he likes.

But let's come back down to earth here, or at least a low altitude cruising level of some sort. Flyin' off the handle w/ police threats etc will get you no where; ESPECIALLY in Canada dude. The police service will with out a word of a lie tell you straight up that your $50-100 loss is sad, but not worth the $1000's they'd spend in man hours to bother with it. Make the complaint if you want, then it IS on file and after so many complaints the ticker tape of fruad starts adding up to make it worth the Police's while to investigate.

Just to clarify it appears to be the seller that's threatening the buyer (Gorrath) with "police action" if he doesn't give him a tracking number for the models he's returning. Seems like a bit of a loon.

I can't speak for Dakka's rules but, on Bartertown, our P.O.V. is that this would be his responsibility to take care of, including paying the shipping cost to have the models returned.
There's no good reason YOU should lose money because he lied or was ignorant of the condition of the models.

Primer over paint does NOT equal primed.

Eric

I would be frustrated too. The description wasn't accurate and that has been confirmed by the seller. Personally, I would resolve it by posting a transaction report in the swap shop. Then I'd just let it go and strip the paint from the models.

You can strip these so easily with super clean, also super clean is reusable. Really we are talking less than 3 hours for clean figures if you heat the super clean to around 115 degrees F it works even faster. You will be able to make sure your new to you figures are reassembled correctly and all flash is removed. Something most of us would want to do.

If you got a good deal on these, in the range of %40 off retail or better then you are being unreasonable. Just strip them and leave a report about the undisclosed reprimer layer.

Personally this is exactly how I built two gigantic armies, I bought badly assembled badly painted minis real damn cheap and stripped them in my down time.

I don't call it unreasonable to want what you were told to expect.
For some of us, hobby time is at a premium. We don't want to take the time or go through the crap of stripping models.

Eric

I agree that it is bad as a seller not to disclose actual condition, including things like a reprime, missing parts, or a bad conversion that is not visible in photos or listed in descriptions. All of these are things that I have been on the receiving end of.

I also believe in "Let the buyer beware", if it is too good to be true then maybe that should be the first warning sign.

In this situation if the price of the lot bought was well under retail minus %25 then i would bite the bullet strip the minis and leave a negative seller report for lack of disclosure.
If the additional discount was not enough to offset cost of a bottle of cleaner and hassle then I would look to return the figures.

Os the OP asked for opinions, and did not give us actual cost of the lot including shipping we don't know how reasonable he is being.
For instance if he paid %5 of retail I bet nearly everyone would say he got a great deal and to suck it up.
Whereas if he had paid %95 or retail we would all be laughing at him for paying more for the lot than he could have purchased it for through a internet retailer. And nearly all of us would say get your money back.

MagickalMemories wrote:I don't call it unreasonable to want what you were told to expect.
For some of us, hobby time is at a premium. We don't want to take the time or go through the crap of stripping models.

Eric

I don't disagree with a single word you said, but for me it would come down to what is a bigger headache/loss.

I'm in no way defending the seller. He is in the wrong, should have delivered what was described, and should cover return postage since it was clearly their fault. Being realistic though, that won't happen.

If it comes down to spending some time stripping some models or shelling out cash to ship back, I'd strip the models.

If the main issue here is lack of time to spend stripping models, then I remind you not to forget the time it would take to repackage and reship the models back to the guy and the potential cost involved which from the sounds of it, the OP will not be reimbursed even though they should be. Depending on how many models we are talking about, actual time spent stripping will not take much longer than that (I'm not counting soak time, just time when you are actually working on the models).

Obviously my time isn't at an extreme premium because I'm on this thread discussing the OP's problem, and I think it is safe to say that that applies across the board.

haendas wrote: Obviously my time isn't at an extreme premium because I'm on this thread discussing the OP's problem, and I think it is safe to say that that applies across the board.

Untrue. I can do my financial analysis for work whilst popping over to Dakka to read threads here and there. If i busted out some Super Clean and starting dunking models i think my boss would get a bit .

Please start a BTR so I know who this is you traded with. I would like to stay away from them.

Just want to make sure, you did not pay for the models yet, right? I would not ship them back until I got everything that was owed to me.

Maybe it was an honest mistake. Maybe they just couldn't be bothered. Maybe they secretly hold a grudge, and are trying to get back at you.

Any way you look at it, at this level, it is really annoying because it makes for a lot more work for you, but I would recommend that you make whatever report you feel appropriate and then let it drop. Taking it to the police will only waste time, yours, as they move along to more important things.

If it was listed as Primed, when in actuality it was primed than painted than reprimed. Listed as (Primed)

Than that's just a seller lying to get a sale. That many layers of paint takes all the detail out of the model. Stripping is a pain/ time consuming.

Sounds as though the models were primed over paint to improve resale price
Can't see any reason for priming over paint

If you haven't paid yet this is less of a problem
If you have don't ship back until you have a refund as mentioned.
Problem, certainly in UK law, is Caveat emptor. (Let the buyer beware) but he won't have done his credibility any good as a trader so you have a little leverage here maybe.