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Company Command Squad 230
Commander with Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon and x2 Body Guards
Vetrans with Vox Caster, Regimental Standard, Heavy Flamer and Melta Gun
Squad with Krak and Carapace armor
Chimera Transport
with Dozer Blade and Heavy Flamer on hull

Sly Marbo 65

Veteran Squad x4 728 (for all four)
V. Sergeant with Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon
Vets with melta gun x3 points each and Vox Caster
Carapace Armor
Chimera Transport
with Dozer Blade and Heavy Flamer on hull

Armored Sentinals x3 273 (for all three)
Plasma Cannons, Hunter Killer Missles, Search lights and Smoke Launchers

Leman Russ Punisher 190
with Dozer Blade

Leman Russ Vanquisher x2 360 (for both)
with Dozer Blade and Extra Armor

Just wanted to see how everyone felt about this list! Let me knw!

What can I say about this list that's nice?

Well, um...

It's certainly formatted into nice columns very well.

Sadly, that's about the best thing I can say about it.

Plasma pistols are never worth it, they don't have the range.
Voxes are pointless in a mech list (or at least not worth the points) since you can't issue orders to embarked units.
Regimental standards are pointless, you aren't going to try to fight in melee against anyone but Tau with non-power-blob Guard.
Carapace armor isn't worth it (it's too expensive for something that doesn't give you a good enough boost).
Having a heavy flamer in a mech list is pointless, with eleventy-billion (free) hull HFs around why pay through the nose for yet another one?
Dozer blades I'm pretty meh about, but it's dependent on your local meta. If you play with a lot of terrain it might be worth it.
Likewise with Kraks, if you're facing a lot of chimera/rhino spam them maybe they're worth it too.
Marbo is ok.
As I said above, a vox is pointless in a mech list and carapace is just worthless, period.
Bolt pistols are cheap, but they're not free either.
Armored sentinals aren't worth it: you've taken the one thing that makes sentinals arguably (and I do stress "arguably", I'm more pro-sentinal than a lot of people here) worth it, and traded it for increased cost and incrementally better armor.
Don't let "Heavy 20" fool you, a punisher isn't worth it. You're paying for bolter spam, both in points (too high) and in Heavy slots (too precious).
Vanquishers would need to be at least BS 4 to be worth it. Lemans aren't meant to kill armor, that's what Vendettas (or Melta Guns) are for.
You don't have reliable anti-horde for anything above T4, you don't have any reliable anti-armor for anything beyond 12 inches (vanquishers don't count as reliable anti-armor because they aren't reliable!).

Sorry to be an ass about it, but this is a not-good list.

I've never made a list for IG. So to be honest I Have no idea what im doing. I'm thinking about just making a IG blod with Catachans. I want to use sentinals though. Scouts even.

There are a few really good IG list builders on Dakka (I'm not one of them). Watch and learn.

Well your first list was a mech vet list, but you want blobs?

For a mech vet build, you have a number pieces you can use to build a solid army. Your CCS should be given as many special weapons as possible (Four meltaguns or plasma guns, don't mix them!) and possibly an advisor. Nothing more. They ride in a chimera with no upgrades. Every chimera should have a turret multilaser and a hull heavy flamer.

After that you add the vets. They should have either three meltaguns or three plasmaguns, riding in chimeras. No other upgrades. If you happen to have 30 extra points kicking around after the list is done, you can give one of them a doctine, like demolitions.

Then pick a theme for your fast attack and heavy support. If you want sentinels, add a bunch of sentinels. Give them autocannons or lascannons.

If you want power blobs, you have to decide if you want a more assault oriented force, or a more stationary shoot'em up force.

For a Catachan themed build, I'd go with the first option. Each PCS should have at least three special weapons, if not four, all the same. The 'blob' together 2-3 infantry squads and give them a commissar. Give each sergeant and the commissar a power weapon and add special/heavy weapons to taste.

Give the CCS Straken and run him with a bunch of special weapons near your blobs to grant them furious charge. Add sentinels and other toys to taste.

If you're going to remember one thing about the guard, its to take the bare minimum necessary upgrades to get the job done. Do you need voxes to blow up that tank? No. Drop them. Do I need carapace armour to shoot those terminators? No. Drop it. So on and so forth.

Yeah, Black is giving you some decent advice...

If your starting out with IG, I suggest you make a 400pt Combat Patrol list and work your way up from there. Play, play, play... nothing beats experience.

People can do lists for you, but no one knows your play style. No one is deploying the list for you or picking the shots or rolling the dice. Get the codex, read it. Get a base rule book, read it (the first 90+ pages). Start small (cheap) and learn Guard.

You might become dis-illusioned with Scout Sentinals when you use a couple and watch Heavy Bolters drop them and they miss constantly with that BS 3. Black is being generious when he listed a second weapon option past AC... as far as I am concerned, that /is/ the only option, because you now have 75% chance of hitting with at least one shot (two 50% chances).

Good luck!

Thanks all of y'all. I'm still building and sculpting my army. Like I've said I have no idea what im doing. I'll need any advice y'all can give and I'll soak it up!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Company Command Squad 230
Commander with Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon, Officer of the Fleet, and x2 Body Guards
Vetrans with Flamer, Heavy Flamer, and Melta Gun x2
Chimera Transport
with Dozer Blade and Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squads x5 735 (for all five)
V. Sergeant with Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon
Vets with melta gun x3
Chimera Transport
with Dozer Blade with Heavy Flamers

Bane Wolves x2 302 (for both)
With Multi Meltas, Dozer Blades, Search Lights, and Smoke Lunchers

Leman Russ Battle Tanks x3 570 (for both)
with Dozer Blades and Multi Meltas.

Im going all mech. I hope this is a lot then my firsttry.

Better.

But:

I stand by the HF being a waste in a mech list, HFs are on every Chimera, why pay so much for another one?

You're still gilding the lilly with your vet squads. If they get into melee they will die, period. Giving the sergeants power weapons won't prevent this, they'll just make it represent a greater percentage loss when they do.

Sponsons on Russes aren't worth it, your tank has to be moving, or it will die.

That, along with the dozer blades (a marginal choice), is at least 260 points freed up by my count. That's 2 Vendettas (far and away your best choice for ranged AT, bar none).

Right on. Ill have to do that. Thanks so much for the help. And are you saying just take the power weapons off period on the Vet squads? So I can put points other places?

SwiftLord14 wrote:Right on. Ill have to do that. Thanks so much for the help. And are you saying just take the power weapons off period on the Vet squads? So I can put points other places?

The power weapons for sure, I would dump the plasma pistols too.

Company Command Squad 217
Commander with Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon, Officer of the Fleet, and x2 Body Guards
Vetrans with Melta Gun x4
Chimera Transport
with Dozer Blade and Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squads x5 635 (for all five)
Vets with melta gun x3
Chimera Transport
with Dozer Blade with Heavy Flamers

Bane Wolves x2 252 (for both)
Search Lights and Smoke Launchers

Leman Russ Battle Tanks x3 480 (for all three)
with Dozer Blades

Vendetta gun Ships x2 260

Im getting there!

I'd say that's a lot better. Not super-tuned, but only WAAC-offs care about squeezing every last point, and who wants to be one of those?

Not me thats for sure! Thanks a lot!

Doctor Optimal wrote: Not super-tuned, but only WAAC-offs care about squeezing every last point, and who wants to be one of those?

I'm sorry but, really? What does that even mean?

On topic;

Besides, by dropping all the dozerblades, the two bodyguards, and the commanders power weapon, you can bring another banewolf, or almost another veteran squad, or another vendetta.

Also, I think your math is a little off. A veteran squad in a chimera with three melta guns is 155pts, and five of them would be 775 instead of 635. Then again, I could also be misreading your list.

Blacksails wrote:

Doctor Optimal wrote: Not super-tuned, but only WAAC-offs care about squeezing every last point, and who wants to be one of those?

I'm sorry but, really? What does that even mean?

It means nothing. Calling someone WAAC is like calling a list Cheesey, it's an excuse.

But hey, you win the moral superiority contest!

OK... here is an example of what folk are talking about...

CCS - 175pts
4x Melta guns, Officer of the Fleet, Chimera with hull HF

CCS - 155pts
4x Melta guns, Plasma Pistol, Chimera with hull HF

Vets - 155pts
3x Melta guns, Chimera with hull HF

Vets - 155pts
3x Melta guns, Chimera with hull HF

Vets - 155pts
3x Melta guns, Chimera with hull HF

Vets - 155pts
3x Melta guns, Chimera with hull HF

Vets - 180pts
3x Plasma guns, AC, Chimera

Vets - 180pts
3x Plasma guns, AC, Chimera

Vendetta - 130pts

Vendetta - 130pts

Vendetta - 130pts

Hydra Battery (2) - 150pts

Gives you 6 rushing Chimeras with 20 melta guns at BS 4. Your 3 Vendettas can now fire at 3 different targets instead of being in a squadron and having to fire on one target. Your Hydras are good against Skimmers and give you added AC support for transport popping. Combined with the two rear area camping vets (if needed for objective games) this can give you 12 Str 7 shots at up to 3 targets ( 8 at one, 2 at two other targets). I had 10 extra points, so I threw in a plasma pistol on the one CCS. This can easily make the squad into another Vet squad at that 155pts if desired, but I opted for a non-scoring unit with an extra bit of fire power vs a scoring unit. Either option is viable. True mech guard is effectivily a Chimera hoard rush, IMO.

This list... probably means little to you because you do not seem to have alot of experience playing. I don't think you understand squadrons or what it means to add on extra equipment where the extra equipment doesn't help you. Any list in WH40k is kinda like this... if your not using it every battle or every type of battle, it is probably wasted points that could be spent on stuff you /do/ use every battle. The ACs on those plasma Vets and the Plasma Pistol could be considered wasted points. That could be another OotF in the second CCS so to stop the ability of the OotF they have to drop both CCSs. Heck, the OotF could be wasted points if your not facing Reserve units.... but alot of people use them and for the 30-60pts there was little better choices to spend those points on. Two-third of the games right now are objective games, meaning you will need a force that counts as scoring to sit back and camp it... thus the ACs with the Plasma gun Vets. Now they can reach out and add in some fire power. In a kill point game you use a different stratigy all together.

Simple fact is you could make a great list, but if you do not use it well due to inexperience, it will not matter what list is till you learn the game better. I would just hate to see you drop /alot/ of money on a list and find out you don't like IG because you want to do Close combat and IG really doesn't do close combat. I mean, even with your list, you looking at 500-1000 bucks easy (WH armies are roughly 1 buck per 2 points).

Good luck...

unbeliever87 wrote:

Blacksails wrote:

Doctor Optimal wrote: Not super-tuned, but only WAAC-offs care about squeezing every last point, and who wants to be one of those?

I'm sorry but, really? What does that even mean?

It means nothing. Calling someone WAAC is like calling a list Cheesey, it's an excuse.

But hey, you win the moral superiority contest!

Well, I thought it was a funny phrase, but hey, you want to be a joyless schmuck about how great you are at min-maxing a non-balanced game? Fine, why don't you go feth yourself.

Easy there!

Doctor Optimal wrote:

unbeliever87 wrote:

Blacksails wrote:

Doctor Optimal wrote: Not super-tuned, but only WAAC-offs care about squeezing every last point, and who wants to be one of those?

I'm sorry but, really? What does that even mean?

It means nothing. Calling someone WAAC is like calling a list Cheesey, it's an excuse.

But hey, you win the moral superiority contest!

Well, I thought it was a funny phrase, but hey, you want to be a joyless schmuck about how great you are at min-maxing a non-balanced game? Fine, why don't you go feth yourself.

Wow. Easy there. You're the one who is arbitrarily calling people who bring solid lists with little/no fat 'joyless schmucks' and 'WAAC-offs'. Also, telling people to 'go feth themselves' is equally not nice.

To be honest, if you play 40k games the way you talk here, I'm afraid you might be the WAAC player, or at least TFG.

If you think bringing a solid list makes people 'joyless schmucks', then you need to play with better people. Not skill wise, just better people. I bring solid lists (no vendettas or manticores) with all the fat trimmed, and do well enough, and not a single person has ever complained about the way I play.

Contrary to your belief, you can bring a good, strong list, and not be a horrible person that sucks the fun out of the game. I do it all the time and have great games doing it.

Watch your language though, seriously. Its not becoming.

You guys are so insecure about your UBER L33T MEGA-TUNED lists you can't take an off hand joke? Fine. Whatever. I try to help a guy make a better list and I get piled on.

Doctor Optimal wrote:You guys are so insecure about your UBER L33T MEGA-TUNED lists you can't take an off hand joke? Fine. Whatever. I try to help a guy make a better list and I get piled on.

Right, we're the insecure ones. As opposed to yourself who is the one throwing around insults.

We're all helping here, and the point is that if all the extra upgrades were dropped, a significantly more useful unit could be added, making the list much better. The whole point of the army-list forum is to make lists better, and more often than not as a consequence of that, leaner.

I got his list to 90% lean, made a joke, and got dumped on. I'm honestly pretty sick of this sort of thing happening. Go and make his list like every other generic, airless MeltaMech list if you like. I fething surrender.

Doctor Optimal wrote:I got his list to 90% lean, made a joke, and got dumped on. I'm honestly pretty sick of this sort of thing happening. Go and make his list like every other generic, airless MeltaMech list if you like. I fething surrender.

Regardless of your intention or however victimized you may feel, when I asked for clarification about your joke, you responded in a rather unpleasant and completely unwarranted way. You brought this on yourself.

I appreciate everyones help! Can't we all just get along?