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This past weekend, I did extremely well with the following list:


H.Q.

Grand Master
Blind Grenades, Rad Grenades -195

Librarian
Warp Rift, Quicksilver, Might of Titan, Shrouding, Sanctuary -175

Troops

Terminators 5x
Daemonhammer, Sword/Psycannon, Sword, 2x Halberd -225

Terminators 5x
Daemonhammer, Sword/Psycannon, Sword, 2x Halberd -225

Fast Attack

Stormraven Gunship
Lascannon, Multi-Melta -205

Stormraven Gunship
Lascannon, Multi-Melta -205

Heavy Support

Dreadnought
2x Twin Linked Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition -135

Dreadnought
2x Twin Linked Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition -135

Total: 1500

I'm considering scaling up the list to 2000 to take it to a few GTs in the coming months; however, I'm having issues with trying to figure out what benefits me the most. Here is my proposed 2000 list:


H.Q.

Grand Master
Blind Grenades, Rad Grenades -195

Librarian
Warding Stave, Warp Rift, Quicksilver, Might of Titan, Shrouding, Sanctuary -210

Troops

Terminators 5x
Daemonhammer, Sword/Psycannon, Sword, 2x Halberd -225

Terminators 5x
Daemonhammer, Sword/Psycannon, Sword, 2x Halberd -225

Terminators 5x
Daemonhammer, Sword/Psycannon, Sword, 2x Halberd -225

Fast Attack

Stormraven Gunship
Lascannon, Multi-Melta -205

Stormraven Gunship
Lascannon, Multi-Melta -205

Stormraven Gunship
Lascannon, Multi-Melta -205

Heavy Support

Dreadnought
2x Twin Linked Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition -135

Dreadnought
2x Twin Linked Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition -135

Total: 1965

I have about 35 points left over and I'm not sure where to toss it...I was considering dropping the Psycannon on the 3rd Terminator Squad in exchange for an Incinerator and giving the third Raven Assault Cannon and Heavy Bolter to help with Infantry Suppression...but then that didn't feel right either. So I'm kind of at a loss here. I wanted to keep with Terminators as Troops as it goes to the theme and their increased resilience is extremely important. (I know math hammer says that Larger Power Armored units are just as effective for the points but I haven't seen it turn out that way once.) I'd like to get another Dreadnought in the list but that would require cutting something from the Original list.

pull warp rift from the librarian and put 1 more termie in the 5 man squad?

if you think you can keep your librarian alive you could drop the 3rd raven and give him a teleport beacon, using the extra points for larger teleport striking squads.
I would do assault cannon/MM on the ravens for increased light vehicle and horde work.

I had considered dropping one of the Psychic Powers; however, Warp Rift would probably go after Sanctuary. Automatically penetrating Vehicles and having the ability to make units of Nobz disappear makes me happy.

Teleporting a big squad sounds like an idea but I'm concerned about the loss of mobility. A big squad sounds scary but in the end if it's left flapping in the wind, bad things happen...What would you consider for the larger squad?

I hesitate going all Assault Cannons for the Ravens due to the limited range...sure I could Turbo Boost and chase down vehicles at 36" but sometimes I want to be able to aim at one vehicle and reach across the board. Has anyone had greater success with Assault Cannons over Lascannons?

Unholy_Martyr wrote:I had considered dropping one of the Psychic Powers; however, Warp Rift would probably go after Sanctuary. Automatically penetrating Vehicles and having the ability to make units of Nobz disappear makes me happy.

Teleporting a big squad sounds like an idea but I'm concerned about the loss of mobility. A big squad sounds scary but in the end if it's left flapping in the wind, bad things happen...What would you consider for the larger squad?

I hesitate going all Assault Cannons for the Ravens due to the limited range...sure I could Turbo Boost and chase down vehicles at 36" but sometimes I want to be able to aim at one vehicle and reach across the board. Has anyone had greater success with Assault Cannons over Lascannons?

Yes, I only run AC with Psybolt ammo on my SR. 4 Str 7 Rending shots has proven much more effective in the long run than a single str 9 TL shot. It is more versatile against a wide range of opponents and if the SR isn't in your opponents grill turn 1/2 then you probably have bigger issues than the weapons load out on your SR

I like the list though, very similar to mine.

Hmm, I'll have to try out the Psycannon Storm Ravens (I refuse to have to say Assault Cannon with Psybolt Ammunition because it is a damn Psycannon). In the Long Run it might help out with chewing on Infantry Units.

why are you worried about range for the stormravens, aren't they carrying the terminators and ramming them down the enemies throat?

for the "big" termie squad I would think a 10 man unit combat squadded with as many halbards as it can carry and maybe a banner if you want to run a full 10 man unit.

I like terminators, but you only have 17 guys on the board in your original list, this would push it up to mid 20's which is about where you want to be.

or:
you could also shuffle around some points and stick tharn into the 5 man squad, which would give it more kick and make it more difficult to keep down with him self resurrecting every turn.

The range issue is because I'm stuck in the Space Wolves mindset that there are so many things that can outrun my entire army and easily get out of the 48" range.

I have a couple of games lined up tonight so I will try out all 3 setups:

1) 10 man Terminators
2) Lascannon Ravens
3) Assault Cannon Ravens.

Sanctuary isn't useful for you? That's interesting. Even with Stormravens, things will still assault you.

The Twin-linked Lascannon has the benefit of being free by not require Psybolt ammo. Not that that really matters too much, considering you only need to shave 10 pts to get all three ravens the ammo.

One idea that freaks people out is putting the psycannon on the Justicar and master-crafting it. Kind of unnecessary, but worthy of consideration due to the small number of guns your army has.

I have seen Mordrak used well with a stormraven rush list.

Okay so Sanctuary isn't useless...I was just saying that would probably be the first power I would cut if I had to.

Be honest, there was a point when I was about to be assaulted by 15 Burna Boyz and a Squad of Boyz this weekend and Sanctuary dropped 6 boyz and 3 Burnas and helped my Knights strike first to give them a fighting chance against the Orks so it is pretty necessary.

At this point level you will really need to max out bodies. the 1500 list is ok in comparisan to the point level, but the 2000 list you really need more bodies. maybe try make the third termy squad a 10 man strike squad?

My thought process on keeping units small is their exceptional mobility and resilience. A 10 man Strike Squad will give me more bodies; however, it will be cumbersome when added to the list.

I'm liking the idea of a 10 man Terminator unit mainly because I can slam it down as a brick or if need be combat squad and hold down some home objectives.

Well, if you insist on keeping small but strong units, why not give Paladins a go? After all, you already have the librarian.

Way too many points spent on way too few units, this thing is going to have issues at GTs.

Nearly your entire army is accounted for in fifteen wounds at T4, 2+/5++, which is honestly not that impressive. You then have five AV12 vehicles and a couple characters. What happens after that first assault? Everything dies :( Furthermore, you made it so those 17 models have to do most of the army's heavy lifting, meaning they will have to tend to be played aggressively to put up results. You have nothing able to drop back when needed for an objective either, which I think is important (this could do a lot better supported with GKSS in the rear, for instance). I mean, I guess you could grant the Dreadnoughts the scoring Grand Strategy, but then you are losing the ability to scout (and outflank) your units.

I could see an army like this having to deal with being literally tabled more often than Necrons.

It's one thing for this to be a fun list to play around the club, but I don't think it's a good idea to put out something like this at a GT where you hope to do well.

@Fearspect

To put it simply...the list is a Giant Glass Hammer, it takes a huge amount of effort to get the stage set for the right assaults and shooting. With that said, there are a few points that should be made:

1) If I know I can outright win an assault with a unit, I won't do it. I know all too well about wiping out units and then getting cut to pieces by their support. Part of having 3 Ravens is being able to make the assaults happen on my terms (i.e. Guaranteed Multi Assaults that can either keep me in combat or put me safely out range/los of supporting units.

2) The heavy lifting is actually taken care of by the Ravens and Dreadnoughts. More often than not, the Knights themselves actually clean up more than anything. They are only exposed at the last moment for when I'm ready to use them.

3) Giving Scout to my units is of no practical use to be perfectly honest. In my experience, having my units Outflank is more of a negative than a positive as it limits the amount of power I have on the board and good players know what to expect. Scouting is good; however, having 5 troops, 2 of which are vehicles, far outweighs the benefit of first turn assaults.

To be honest, the armies I have had the most trouble with are Tyranids and Orks. The reasons being is there are just SO many things to kill that are a major threat. When it comes to some of the more prevalent "competitive" armies, this army tends to work as a hot knife through butter due to the all out blitz it is capable of. An example of this was a game I played last night against a buddies Mech I.G. that is fairly similar to yours. Once I silenced the Hydras, it was just a matter of breaking tanks with impunity as there was such a reliance on close in fire support (read: Melta). After the Hydras fell silent, it was just a walk in the park. Another thing that throws my opponents off is how difficult it is to down an AV 12 Vehicle that almost always has a 3+ cover save.

If I can get Vassal to work, we'll have to work this one out and see who is truly in the right. (Another option is to take it to GT's/Tournaments and get results from it).

Just remember, glass hammers break pretty easy!

Continuing your list of armies you have a hard time against would be foot guard. Basically anything with the ability to send torrents of fire at your units is going to spell disaster for you, you're going to feel every single loss of a unit or even model quite severely. While I have my doubts about one game against an IG Mech player going well meaning you have a solid list, I'll reserve judgement and assume you are actively testing this list.

Send me a PM if you would like help getting Vassal working though, I do have to add some Deathstar armies to my testing list. I will have to put the report up on my blog though!