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FOR THIS POLL, PLEASE ANSWER HOW YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY THE GAME, NOT NECESSARILY WHAT THE RULES AS WRITTEN (RAW) SAY.

Feel free to post how and why you voted, but please DO NOT ENGAGE OTHERS IN DISCUSSIONS/ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK THE RULES SAY. Please create a separate thread if you feel the urge to have this kind of discussion.



The rules for 'Vehicle Terrain Effects' say (rulebook, pg 57): "Vehicles are not slowed down by difficult terrain, but treat all difficult terrain as dangerous. Roll a D6 for every vehicle that has entered, left or moved through one or more areas of dangerous terrain during its move. A result of 2-6 on the dice means that the vehicle can carry on moving. A result of 1 means that the vehicle halts immediately and suffers and immobilised damage result, so if it was attempting to enter difficult terrain it stops just outside"


The rules for 'Moving Skimmers' say (rulebook, pg 71): "Skimmers can move over all terrain, ignoring all penalties for for difficult terrain and tests for dangerous terrain. However, if a moving skimmer starts or ends its move in difficult or dangerous terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test."


The rules for 'Shooting at Skimmers' say (rulebook, pg 71): "Skimmers can move over all terrain, ignoring all penalties for difficult terrain and tests for dangerous terrain. However, if a moving skimmer starts or ends its move in difficult or dangerous terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test."


The Games Workshop online Rulebook FAQ (pg 6) says: "Q: If a skimmer is immobilised in its own Movement phase whilst moving flat out is it still destroyed? A: Yes."




QUESTION: When do you play that a skimmer which starts its move in terrain has to take (and apply the effects of) a dangerous terrain test?
Before you answer this poll, please read and think about the details of this other poll here.

EXAMPLE: A skimmer starts its turn in terrain and then moves 24" finishing its move in a different piece of terrain. Exactly when does it take the dangerous terrain test(s) and if failed, where and how are the results applied?



OPTION A. I play that the skimmer would have to take the test (and apply the effects of it) before it is actually moved, so if the test is failed, the skimmer would not move from its starting position. This also means that the skimmer would only be immobilized as it wasn't actually able to move flat-out yet (and therefore cannot be destroyed when immobilized).


OPTION B. I play that the skimmer would have to take the test (and apply the effects of it) before it is actually moved, so if the test is failed, the skimmer would not move from its starting position. However, I also believe that a player must declare whether or not he intends to move a fast skimmer flat-out before moving it and if the skimmer is going to move flat out then a failed dangerous terrain test means the vehicle is destroyed even though the test was failed at the beginning of the move.


OPTION C. I play that the skimmer would only have to take the test (and apply the effects of it) after it finishes its move, so if the skimmer fails the test, the wreck would be placed where it finished its movement (since it moved flat-out the failed test would clearly equal vehicle destruction in this case).


OPTION D. I play that a skimmer that starts AND ends its move in terrain would have to take TWO dangerous terrain tests (unlike non-skimmers), one when it starts its move in terrain and another when it ends its move in terrain. If it fails the first test then it would be immobilized at its starting point and if it failed the second test, then it would be wrecked at the end of its move (because it had moved flat-out by that point).


OPTION E. Something else entirely. Reply what is it below.

At my store, (where I am judge for the 40k night) we play that you must:

a. Move your model & determine the distance it moved (Moving flat-out nearly always includes a statement of "I am moving flat-out" or " "I am moving to gain my 4+ cover")

The actual distance you moved your model establishes whether or not it has moved flat-out.

b. Once placed, take a terrain test for leaving terrain. (And then if applicable, for landing in terrain. [which are two separate tests])

If the result is ever a 1, and the vehicle had moved far enough to be flat-out *boom*
If the result is ever a 1, and the vehicle has not moved flat-out it immobilizes where it would have lifted off or landed(based on which test was failed)

Katfish! wrote:At my store, (where I am judge for the 40k night) we play that you must:

a. Move your model & determine the distance it moved (Moving flat-out nearly always includes a statement of "I am moving flat-out" or " "I am moving to gain my 4+ cover")

The actual distance you moved your model establishes whether or not it has moved flat-out.

b. Once placed, take a terrain test for leaving terrain. (And then if applicable, for landing in terrain. [which are two separate tests])

If the result is ever a 1, and the vehicle had moved far enough to be flat-out *boom*
If the result is ever a 1, and the vehicle has not moved flat-out it immobilizes where it would have lifted off or landed(based on which test was failed)

Same thing where I game.

We play it as A where I'm from, and here's why. The rules for moving flat out do not require you to declare you are moving flat out. If you end up more than 12" from where you start and are a fast skimmer, you have moved flat out.

As you do not declare the intention to move flat out (It is determined at the end of the move), you take the test immediately on entering, leaving, or moving through difficult terrain and if failed are immobilized there. As you have not moved the prerequisite 12"+ to be considered as moving flat out, you are not subject to the rule that destroys fast skimmers moving flat out that are immobilized.

As for Option C, it's clear from the rules (to me at least) that it doesn't work that way. The reason for it is that it takes the test immediately, not at the end of movement.

Option D also doesn't work because of the wording of the dangerous terrain. The reason for that is that it uses the conjunction or rather than and. You take a test for entering or leaving or moving through terrain. You don't take multiple tests if you meet multiple criteria. All because of the word or.

A. there is no "intention" to move in 40k, just how far you would like to move. So you test as soon as you try to move the skimmer, as you are currently in terrain. You dont get to move out of terrain and get immobilised then.

Lone Dragoon wrote:We play it as A where I'm from, and here's why. The rules for moving flat out do not require you to declare you are moving flat out. If you end up more than 12" from where you start and are a fast skimmer, you have moved flat out.

As you do not declare the intention to move flat out (It is determined at the end of the move), you take the test immediately on entering, leaving, or moving through difficult terrain and if failed are immobilized there. As you have not moved the prerequisite 12"+ to be considered as moving flat out, you are not subject to the rule that destroys fast skimmers moving flat out that are immobilized.

As for Option C, it's clear from the rules (to me at least) that it doesn't work that way. The reason for it is that it takes the test immediately, not at the end of movement.

Option D also doesn't work because of the wording of the dangerous terrain. The reason for that is that it uses the conjunction or rather than and. You take a test for entering or leaving or moving through terrain. You don't take multiple tests if you meet multiple criteria. All because of the word or.

The 'or' means that you take the test if either of the criteria are met. If it was the word 'and' instead of 'or' you'd only have to take the test if you both start and end in difficult/dangerous terrain. The wording of the sentence "However, if a moving skimmer starts or ends its move in difficult or dangerous terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test." doesn't specify if it should be one test or two. It's semantics really and can be argued until we are blue in the face.

This is really a house rule matter since it's not covered in the FAQ. If it looks like your opponent is bringing lots of skimmers you should probably decide before hand as it might change both of your deployment and strategies. A roll off in the middle of a move could make or break the game for one player or another.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I often play against an transport heavy Eldar player and we typically go with D. He tends to avoid area terrain for this reason.

nosferatu1001 wrote:A. there is no "intention" to move in 40k, just how far you would like to move.

There is if the Fast Vehicle is a transport, which we have always read as a note of clarification not a specific restriction.

Basically "or is going to move" is hard (impossible?) to read as only applying after the move.

I think we've always normally played it 'C', but after reading the exact excerpts posted, I agree with 'D' more. It comes down to when you would test. You test when moving.

Are you in terrain at the start of your movement phase when you first elect to move? Yes?
Dangerous Terrain check. You failed? You are immobilized/wrecked as appropriate.

Do you end your movement in terrain? Yes?
Dangerous Terrain check.

Is there anything anywhere in the rules that prevents you from having to take more than one dangerous terrain check a turn?

"Roll a D6 for every vehicle that has entered, left or moved through one or more areas of dangerous terrain during its move. "

This is the sentence that I keep coming back to that confuses me when I try to analyze this poll question. This seems to indicate that it doesn't matter how many times you "entered, left or moved through" terrain, just whether or not you did at least once. If you did, it's just one test.

As to how I play it...I don't put my skimmers into terrain.

Saldiven wrote:"Roll a D6 for every vehicle that has entered, left or moved through one or more areas of dangerous terrain during its move. "

This is the sentence that I keep coming back to that confuses me when I try to analyze this poll question. This seems to indicate that it doesn't matter how many times you "entered, left or moved through" terrain, just whether or not you did at least once. If you did, it's just one test.

As to how I play it...I don't put my skimmers into terrain.

Yes you only have to test once per vehicle. My skimmer are always in terrain it seems I've always rolled to see if I'm Immob'd before I even pick them up as I tend to roll alot of 1's for that.

I have to say "A". There is no such thing as declaring how far you are going to go. You take the test the instant it becomes appropriate. In this case before you move. Since the distance you move determines the speed at which you have moved you have gone 0" and thus are only imobilized. Now if you land in it well that's kinda obvious. That's the way I've always played it and being honest I have alot of skimmers in my army. Everyone else who plays using skimmers (3 DE, 1 Tau, 2 GK, and 2 BA) does it the same way.

kirsanth wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:A. there is no "intention" to move in 40k, just how far you would like to move.

There is if the Fast Vehicle is a transport, which we have always read as a note of clarification not a specific restriction.

Basically "or is going to move" is hard (impossible?) to read as only applying after the move.

No, its just the same restriction as Bikes TB and Eldar powers. The restriction on using powers if you want to turboboost is not written in the powers rules, but the TB rules. Same here - they could have just said "you cannot embark or disembark the turn you move flat out" but this way was easier as it put it in the Flat Out section and not the Disembark section and, most likely, different enough to the preceding sentences to look better.

There is still no intention in 40k, this is just poiinting out you cannot perform something later on if you have performed an earlier action that prohibits the later action

The flat out rules would disagree about there not being any 'intention' to move.

Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that Movement phase.

or is going to move. Sounds like 'intention' to me...........................

ANd, I'd covered the reasons for that. Same as you cannot cast Doom if you INTEND to TB, due to a backwards restriction on TB.

Doesnt alter that your actual speed is based on the distance you HAVE moved, not the distance you are GOING to move

That would be your intention to move it flat out. If you are going to move it flat out safely (ie no tests for terrain) then you cannot embark or disembark.

? Terrain has nothing to do with flat out....

There's a lot of votes for B through E, but it seems all the supporting posts are just for A.

It has to be A, the flip-side of this is that a skimmer could not move at all while out of terrain and declare itself moving flat out to gain a cover save. You can't have it both ways.

nosferatu1001 wrote:ANd, I'd covered the reasons for that. Same as you cannot cast Doom if you INTEND to TB, due to a backwards restriction on TB.

Doesnt alter that your actual speed is based on the distance you HAVE moved, not the distance you are GOING to move

So there is intention? Or there isn't?

If you intend to do something that would prohibit A, you cannot do the something if you intend to do A

Still no intention, just a logical prohibition. Doesnt alter that the distance you move is based solely on the path you have taken, and if you havent moved anywhere yet you cannot have moved flat out. You do not "declare" you are going to move flat out, after all. The intention, if it exists, is entirey irrelevant

One interesting consequence I've realized while making and thinking about this poll is that if you're playing with interpretation 'A' is that if you have a skimmer transport with some valuable unit onboard that you REAlLY want to move flat-out into a piece of terrain with (but you're deathly afraid of having the unit get nuked on a failed DT roll) you can simply move your skimmer into a different piece of terrain the turn before (moving under 12") and then in the NEXT turn fly out of the terrain flat-out into the other piece of terrain.

With interpretation A (which most of the voters currently say they play with) you only take a single DT test when you leave the terrain and the test doesn't count the vehicle as moving flat-out...so using this 'tactic' you take one additional DT test (and thereby give yourself a greater chance of having your skimmer immobilized), but you completely alleviate the possibility of losing the unit inside.

yakface wrote:
One interesting consequence I've realized while making and thinking about this poll is that if you're playing with interpretation 'A' is that if you have a skimmer transport with some valuable unit onboard that you REAlLY want to move flat-out into a piece of terrain with (but you're deathly afraid of having the unit get nuked on a failed DT roll) you can simply move your skimmer into a different piece of terrain the turn before (moving under 12") and then in the NEXT turn fly out of the terrain flat-out into the other piece of terrain.

With interpretation A (which most of the voters currently say they play with) you only take a single DT test when you leave the terrain and the test doesn't count the vehicle as moving flat-out...so using this 'tactic' you take one additional DT test (and thereby give yourself a greater chance of having your skimmer immobilized), but you completely alleviate the possibility of losing the unit inside.

This is the kind of thinking we're trying to avoid in our interpretation.

Voted for D,
I see this as the reason why;
"The rules for 'Shooting at Skimmers' say (rulebook, pg 71): "Skimmers can move over all terrain, ignoring all penalties for difficult terrain and tests for dangerous terrain. However, if a moving skimmer starts or ends its move in difficult or dangerous terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test."

For me this is additional rules beyond the normal vehicle rules. I would say only one test if the sentence had read.
"However, if a moving skimmer starts AND/or ends its move in difficult or dangerous terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test."

To me I see the above rule as having two different triggers that would cause a up to 2 different tests.

The AND doesnt do what you think it does, as you still end up with A dangerous terrain test at the end of it.

True, AND would imply that they would have to both enter and leave terrain in order to have to take a single test. I still think that D is proper however,

yakface wrote:
One interesting consequence I've realized while making and thinking about this poll is that if you're playing with interpretation 'A' is that if you have a skimmer transport with some valuable unit onboard that you REAlLY want to move flat-out into a piece of terrain with (but you're deathly afraid of having the unit get nuked on a failed DT roll) you can simply move your skimmer into a different piece of terrain the turn before (moving under 12") and then in the NEXT turn fly out of the terrain flat-out into the other piece of terrain.

With interpretation A (which most of the voters currently say they play with) you only take a single DT test when you leave the terrain and the test doesn't count the vehicle as moving flat-out...so using this 'tactic' you take one additional DT test (and thereby give yourself a greater chance of having your skimmer immobilized), but you completely alleviate the possibility of losing the unit inside.

While yes this would be the case it isn't high up there on the list of tactics I use mainly because of the extra DT test. Why you can't go flat out and land outside the terrain and then "hop" in next turn I don't get. It should be more effective as you get the cover, and can still get in the terrain without having to go through the debate of how many tests do you have to take.

I still stand by my original answer of A though. 1 test and its taken before you leave terrain if you are in it, and results in immobilized only as distance denotes speed not speed gives permision for distance.